Surfski Knowledge Base

Brandon Nelson
09/27/18 #23835

There are some INSANELY fast paddlers in our community right now. It's crazy fun to be out there among you all!
However, let's define “course” in the context of a course record. I've been racing the Wed. nighters for 12 years now, and have observed the following:

• The “starting line” seems to be somewhere within about a 50-yard range and the moment of the start seems to be at any point beginning about 5 to 7 seconds before someone says go.
• The first turn has changed numerous times.
• The pilings on either side of the lake crossing have stayed the same.
• The long back stretch is just “get to the other end as fast and directly as you can.”
• The turn at the end of the back stretch has changed numerous times.
• The route through the mooring and swim buoys past DJ's neighborhood seems open to interpretation.
• The turn at the end of that stretch used to be a rusty tin bucket over the top of a piling, but a dock was built, that dock and bucket are gone, and the turn is now one or the other of two mooring buoys.
• The Gazebo in the “Gazebo turn” is gone… then a dock got built to block the ninja route… and now it's some newer pilings.
• The dock turn hasn't changed.
• The final turn has stayed the same, around the piling.
• The finish line seems slightly-to-widely different for everyone.

I don't know what all those changes add up to, but “course record” is kind of like the value of any given piece of real estate on any given day: it falls within a range.

B

Jonas Ecker

09/27/18 #23836

That’s very true, whenever I describe the Wednesday Nighter I say it’s a weekly community distance race usually between 5km and 6km, depending on the day.

Jonas Ecker

David Scherrer
09/27/18 #23837

Your right as rain Brandon. And that’s why we like the ol Wednighter D

Toby Cooper
09/27/18 #23838

Hasn’t anyone ever taken a GPS out there and recorded the Lat/Lon for a start-finish line and the positions of the turns? If people want to keep records, seems easy with a few crab pot buoys and cinder blocks. If a piling with a rusty bucket disappears, it can be replaced. I get it that the Wed. nighters are for fun and blowing off mid-week steam, but here we see bragging rights rearing their ugly head, so why not set up something consistent.

Toby

Steve Scoggins

09/27/18 #23839

Nope. B

Steve

Reivers Dustin

09/28/18 #23840

Many markers have been placed and lost. I wish I could remember Greg's old times or even Mickey B'S . LARRY B used a speedmate to get distance and created a graph of time vs. Speed. DK had done a spreadsheet for time tracking . LB might actually remember some of the old barnacle times. For example Joost was top finisher for several years. I'll never forget Greg's blowing us all off the water using a plastic Sprinter.

Kevin Olney
09/28/18 #23841

Toby’s right, we can fix this! I set up a go fund me to replace the Rusty Bucket. If everyone chips in we can make it happen

gofundme.com/replace-the-rusty-bucket

Brandon Nelson

09/28/18 #23842

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!! PRICELESS!!!!!!!!! PURE GENIUS KEVIN!!!!!!

Duncan Howat

09/28/18 #23843

Joost was the man for many years unless Greg showed up, which he did when he lived here in town. Joost's boats during the early days weren't particularly fast, but he was, (is) unless he showed up in his K-1 then he usually gave everyone 3-5 min head start. I know this to be true cuz then I was rowing and would start with him or so. I remember a sub 25 on the longer course at that time. At least 20 years ago.. But coming around to todays situation, there are many more boats now and having the turns slightly further off shore gives more room for everyone, (less carbon bashing) , less effected by low water levels, and the lake front property owners less apt to try to remove them. So the coners that need a permanent fix are the first one,( I think the start buoy line is good, projecting out from the stump) the old caboose turn, then the rusty bucket turn. Thats it. the rest are permermanet. Getting the right kinda of buoy, easily identifiable for RD and Larry B to make out from 20 ft away,with a solid attachment system, will be key. So I or maybe Peter will look around for the buoys etc,and next wed night I can bring the big boat to the lake at 4,and with some help we could make honest time reporting going forward, if you care to.D

Steve Scoggins

09/28/18 #23844

But what about the milk jug? My favorite is when the water level exposes the milk jug turn. Then you see it and someone would say“goin' to the jug”, then somebody follows, or maybe not. Then afterwards, people are talking, “did you go to the jug?”, followed by, “I've never heard of the jug”.

Maybe the jug is gone, but it was a staple for me. But only when it would show up. Pretty sure Kirk explained the jug to me. Is the jug turn real or just a game Kirk played?

Steve

Pmarcus

09/28/18 #23845

How about bright Green ones….like on Padden… Need only Three….three large cinder blocks…I have a rustic bucket so the money saved there can be invested in race Buoys. We could pull them out at the end of the season …. ? :)

Tony Brown
09/28/18 #23847

There are to many variables for the times to really be compared fairly. Went threw this when racing snowmobiles, just to inconsistent until we started using beam timing lights set at a measured distance. The average speed over the coarse I believe is the most consistent measure, never lining up at the same spot, factoring in the rolling starts, at what point do you stop your GPS and some people have their GPS set up to auto start at a set MPH and some don't all contribute to inconsistency. However there should be a third wave start that these kids should have to do, so we all can enjoy watching them fly by.

Jeff Davis

09/28/18 #23850

Hey, don’t you realize what a slippery slope this is? Like dominoes, first it’s a rusty bucket and before you know it there’s a board of directors with bylaws and annual dues and and, wait for it, a Wednesday night record committee. Keep going around whatever’s at hand and lie about your time. Like Duncan.

JD

Whatcom Challenge
Toby Cooper
09/28/18 #23851

Here is my proposal. Call it the Whatcom Challenge. Or Lake Whatcom Freakout. Or whatever we want to call it.

I will contribute $100 to the “Junior Program of Your Choice” every time someone breaks the Lake Whatcom Wednesday Night Course Record.

Here are (draft) Rules:

Whatcom Paddlers will figure out the course, but my recommendation is that 1) GPS coordinates be recorded for the buoy end of the line, 2) GPS coordinates should also be established for the existing turning marks at the corners. We continue to use those marks as long as they are viable, or replace them using the recorded Lat/Lon if they disappear.

· With the course set, someone runs the course, paddling or in a skiff, whatever, three times with a GPS watch or tracker. Take the average of the three. This becomes the Official Course Distance.

· For someone to qualify for a record, they must fulfill as follows: 1) Challenger(s) paddle the course any time of day or night, any day of the week, Provided That they carry an on-board GPS device that records that they paddled the Official Course Distance to within 3 meters of that distance (that is about the accuracy parameter of small GPS devices); and, 2) Challenger(s) must supply witness testimony that they started as close as possible to the Official Start/Finish line and rounded all the required marks.

Notes:

1. The best way to do this is to use a GPS that allows you to record elapsed time over a set distance. My Garmin 920XT does this, anyway. Say the Official Course Distance is 5234 meters. Set the GPS for 5234 meters, with a 5 or 10 second “warmup”. You put your boat on the line, start the watch, and the “warmup” function will count you down to the start. Paddle the course and when the watch gets to 5234 meters it will stop and record your time automatically. That way, you start and finish “as close as possible” to the line, but it is not the actual line that matters. The watch takes care of it.

2. The Whatcom Challenge is open to all human-powered paddle craft, singles or team, in which the paddler faces forward. No backwards boats.

3. I do this because for about 50 years I have done Wednesday night time trials as part of training for paddling and other things. Plus, I firmly believe that all great sports programs, ours included, are only as good as their upcoming youth.

4. Record-setting paddlers can designate any junior program for the prize money, Padden, Samish, Seattle, Bair Island in CA, any viable program as long as it is a genuine youth-oriented paddling program, preferably helping kids set their sights on national and international competition and the Olympics.

5. If Whatcom Paddlers likes this idea I will contribute $100 to K.O.’s gofundme thing for seed money to set this all up. It is up to Whatcom Paddlers as to how they keep the record books.

6. Finally, past records that can be identified, including Nicholas’, Greg’s, or others to go in the record books with an asterisk*. No payment for these.

Thanks,

Toby

Emma McCoy <emmammccoy@…>

09/28/18 #23852

Oooooo this sounds interesting. I guess we’ll have to fire up the k4 again! Thanks for your generosity, this is getting the competitive gears turning!

Dennis Mowry

09/28/18 #23855

If we are talking about setting up a specfic course and distance, that different from the many previous ones , I suggest each time we race set a new record. Allowing the slower boats set the new base line then continue breaking me records each week.

Should generate some dough pretty quick.
:D'

Steve Scoggins
09/28/18 #23856

There we go. Toby just got a new nickname. “Blank Check”.

Steve

Toby Cooper

09/28/18 #23857

OK, OK, guys. Read the rules.

We first establish the course by recording GPS Lat/Lon readings for the line and turning marks. Those readings can be written down and saved so that the course can be re-created in the future no matter what happens.

We then measure the course three times and take a mathematical average of those three readings. ( Doing it three times and averaging just seems more defensible.) Now we have an Official Course Distance. The idea of establishing that number, measured in meters with a GPS device, is to have one, single, Official Course Distance. That is the number. Forever. Not each week but year-over-year as long as we feel like. It is going to be something north of 5000 meters I expect. But that’s the idea. One measurable distance for everybody, for all time going forward.

If Cryder or a K 4 or Barton sets a good time, I expect it will be tough to beat. Not a Blank Check by any means, but maybe one $100 award lasts a couple of years. Who knows?

Having said all that, I expect that as a practical matter, by popular demand this is going to end up with class scoring and is going to look like WebScorer. So if this idea catches on, I expect we will have to find “sponsors” for the OC’s, SUP’s, etc. because otherwise Steve is right, “Blank Check Dude” steps up to the plate.

So, at least for the surfski, I am thinking of the following Awards.

For both Single and Double skis:

$100 for Open (no age limit).

$100 for Women (no age limit).

$200 if a Woman beats the Open record.

$100 for U18 Open.

$100 for U18 Women.

$200 for U18 Man/Woman who beats the “no age limit” Open record.

Sounds good???

Toby

Jonas Ecker

09/28/18 #23859

Overall sounds good but the one concern I have is the distance, the concept is a good idea but on a distance race especially with bouy to bouy distance can very person to person. Wider/tighter turns, or other abnormalities would be good to think about; basically distances differences along the course that would effect the “finish”.

Jeff Hegedus

09/28/18 #23860

do not let the wed nighter succumb to corporate culture and measurement, it is free and personal and let it stay that way

Larry Bussinger
09/29/18 #23863

Reivers, since you, me, and Micky were the first surf skiers in Bellingham, just how did the Wednesday race start? We just didn't start with 30 people and a Whatcom Paddlers site. Ski to Sea must have been the incentive but how did we let everyone know?

Also, as far as buoy's go, I've never been able to keep a buoy on Larry's rock on the Bay. As soon as the low June ebb tides hit, they're gone.

Larry B

Rick Lingbloom

09/29/18 #23864

My Wednesday Night musings …

This is my 16th year of Wednesday Nighters ( I know, I know … you would think by now I'd actually be competent at paddling … oh well …).

What I remember is that there were lots of sea kayaks paddling too. Saw Duncan row and also paddle an OC1. Also, you could easily recognize everyone because there were no 'look alike' boats. No Epic, no Think, no Huki, no Fenn … Ok, there was one Fenn … Simon had a Mako Millennium. I didn't own a ski, so after watching him go so fast I called OPS and ordered one without ever even sitting in it. Figured I'd get a fast boat so I could be like Simon. Obviously that didn't work out so well … yikes! Joost was paddling another 'fast' boat … a Twogood. I soon realized it wasn't about the boat, but rather the motor!! Some new couple showed up in town with a tandem sea kayak and were pretty fast too … think their last name was Nelson. Was anyone under 30 years old back then?

On another note, I'm enjoying all the course 'discussions' and hearing the various opinions. I tend to agree with Brandon. For old times sake I paddled around the old 'rusty bucket' piling (sans rusty bucket) today. Many of you remember this being deep in the corner … shallow and tight. We quit using it after a property owner extended his dock out close to the piling making it even tighter and potentially dangerous. You have to look hard to find it now! By the way I measured and as of this morning it was 28“ deep there.

I'm so glad I've been able to play with you all for 16 years … both young and old!

Rick

Marc Blake
09/29/18 #23865

Reivers is probably hammering away on his keyboard, but I’ll save him a little bit of trouble if he isn’t too far in.

A couple of years ago as we were preparing the soup for the Whatcom Classic, I posed some of these very questions to Reivers. Here are his unedited answers from May of 2016:

How did surfskis get introduced in Bellingham? How did it get so popular?

(ans…) Gracious sakes, this is a somewhat general question. It somewhat ties into the next question about Wed Niters.

Most of us would agree that the catalyst for racing kayaks around here was a man named Mickey Bevins. Mickey was a very fit, active guy who began going to races outside of the area. He was a bit older and some time ago has retired, as much due to injury as anything else. Mickey raced sprint K-1s as well as Down River racing. He was a top finisher in his age group and had a regular training program for himself. Mickey was very generous and supportive to anyone he met. He brought the first surfksi to town which was a Chalupski Twogood from Hawaii. At that time people mostly raced touring kayaks which are by nature slower than a surfski. You might know that surfski's have been popular in Australia and South Africa for many years. They began showing up in Hawaii and the Chalupski designed, Bob Twogood built boats were made there. As some of us joined Mickey for paddles we knew that to be competitive we had to get surfskis. By then a fellow named Keith Keillor in California was making Valhalla brand boats. Most of us bought Valhallas to bellingham. A good site for better history of these boats is:

http://globalsurfski.com/2010/10/23/3476/

Mickey eventually organized one of the first general human-powered races in the area: the “Lake Samish Salmon Roe”. I think this was around 2005. By then there were quite a few paddlers with surfskis. This was motivated because the Bellingham Ski-to-Sea had shifted out the sailboat racing in favor of kayakers racing across the bay.

How long have the Wednesday night “races” been going? How did it get started?

(ans…) These races started because Mickey Bevins did one of his regular workouts at that time. He had marked out a course distance and used this to compare his times for improvement. So a handful of us would join in. I would estimate about 1990 for when this became a regular thing. Often there would be five or six of us on a good day. Sometimes just one or two. We would often go for a beer afterwards so it was logical for the slower guy to get an early start. Participation grew quickly when Ski-to-Sea added sea kayaking. Another milestone was when Greg Barton moved into town. Greg was doing work for Ocean Kayaks, including design of the “Sprinter”. The Sprinter is an approximation of a surfski using roto-mold technique. Greg was very generous with his time and talent for us regulars. He was also a shock to our ideas of how fast is fast. In those days we would see great participation a few weeks ahead of Ski-to-Sea, then back to our regular half-dozen for the rest of summer. I must mention that I have held one of Greg's Olympic Gold medals in my hands. They are big and gold is heavy!

Origins of Whatcom Paddlers group?

(ans…) I had been told about a yahoogroup of kayak racers, so I looked it up and joined. It was fascinating because the group included paddle racers from all over the world. Often the posts would be in foreign languages. The discussions were lively, sometimes very technical and mostly oriented to sprint racing. A lot of the discussions would go over my head or they would not be of value since they were about European events. I noticed that some of us locals were on the group and realized we had a need to communicate with each other. So I fiddled around and found it was easy to start a yahoogroup. I started this group in November, 2004. I regret the name because it has become much larger than Lake Whatcom or Whatcom county. There are today 558 members. I'm pretty sure many of this count is duplication or inactive. But there are active members all over North America. Many builders, designers and distributors of paddling equipment monitor the group. Generally they don't post messages because their business exposes them to so much public traffic. Also, when I was involved in the older world-wide group, there would be serious disagreements, sometimes claims of design theft. It works best for all if these are not put on a public forum, like a yahoogroup.

Marc Blake