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races:r2ak_right_boat

R2AK: what boat?

Kevin Olney
08/31/14 #16198

This guy has a fast boat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pipGWQmerEQ&sns=em

Top speed over 65 knots!

Realistically, a small multihull that could be set up to row in light air is probably the boat of choice. Probably double-handed so you could be moving close to 24 hours per day.

Dale McKinnon
08/31/14 #16199

Is it okay to forward your comments, Kevin? You will prove a point I made to Jake Beattie, the race director.

Kevin Olney

08/31/14 #16201

Sure. I think it's a great idea, but the difference between human-powered and wind-powered is huge over that kind of distance. Its a sailing race.

Dale McKinnon
08/31/14 #16202

I am soooo chuckling. I'm sure you are quite familiar with the IP to make that kind of statement.

Jerome Truran
08/31/14 #16203

Hi Helen,
Regarding the Race to Alaska race, thanks for giving us a bit of background info and context on this intriguing race concept. Since it is still in the early, formative stages, please pass these points on to the race director for me. This is what I am thinking

Hold the race in July, if possible, June typically being on the cold side for multi-day paddling

I know there are probably other issues, but a north to south race, WITH the prevailing winds, not against them, would be a lot more palatable to most paddlers

Make it for human powered craft only, no sails/foils/sailing

Make it solo. This to me is more ‘pure’

As it is, the A to B logistics, with two countries involved, customs checks, seconding and car/boat return issues, busy shipping channel crossings, re-supply and safety problems are complicated. I suggest the race be held around Vancouver Island. Simple ‘pack and go’ logistics, no second needed, no car retrieval/return problems at the other end, the start and finish being at the same place. I suggest the Oak Bay Marina in Victoria, it's a world class venue. There is also a worthy history to this - Russell Henry being the latest challenger and current human powered record holder, doing the 1,150kms (720-odd miles) around Vancouver Island, as you probably heard, in 13 days, knocking two days off Colin Angus’ record. Contenders have included nothing less than an Olympic gold medalist, various kayakers, some of whom were of international status and of course Colin Angus himself

Thanks and please feel free to contact me for more in-depth thoughts on any of these issues
Jerome Truran

Dale McKinnon
08/31/14 #16205

I totally agree with Jerome about a north-to-south direction, northwesterlies being the prevailing winds during the summer months, with solo contestants, no doubles, quads, septets or octets. But as to the all the other issues… that's the quagmire the race staff at the WB Foundation will have to resolve. And they will.

June is good for betting on less fog than July in Queen Charlotte Strait, but July is definitely warmer (and foggier). And unless someone has a sail up I seriously doubt anyone will suffer from hypothermia. However, I'm not a paddler, but a rower. Us rowers tend to stay warm. You paddlers tend to go faster.

As to a circumnav of Van Island, it's an interesting idea. I will take it to Jake Beattie next weekend. Many thanks for the thoughts, Jerome. The greater the expertise of the input, the better chance this race has of success and safety. Many thanks!

Dale McKinnon

David Scherrer
08/31/14 #16206

Ya sure about the Nor westerlies being the prevailing winds in June/July? Round here inland waters seem to be southerlies….or so it seems. Least in the summer anyhow.
D

Dale McKinnon
08/31/14 #16207

David, round here inland waters are not fjords. Along the B.C. coast and particularly the Inside Passage, depending on morning and evening temperatures, any vessel is subject to strong catabatic and atabatic winds because of the immediacy of rather tall mountains and fjord-like inlets, regardless of the greater weather patterns and pressure gradients. For example, in Wright Sound there are five very large channels all of which dump their morning cold air from five different directions directly into Wright Sound. In June, those winds can reach 30 knots at the mouths of the inlets. I've never met anyone that has successfully sailed from Frasier Reach to Grenville Channel (or vice versa) without swearing a blue streak. Presuming that our local winds apply across the entire B.C. coast is naive. However, the prevailing summer coastal winds are northwesterlies.

If you'd like to read a bit more about the winds throughout the year along the B.C. coast, you can read this: http://www.bcferries.com/files/asp/northernroutes/RFEOI/Appendices/Appendix_G_Weather.pdf
… but the take away is the following;
“The Pacific High has its greatest intensity in the mid-summer, with offshore prevailing winds in a northwesterly direction. Closer to land, the winds are constrained to move in channels governed by the land masses…”

If you are thinking about attempting the R2A, I trust you will delve into the weather phenomena of our northern neighbor and appreciate how very different it is. You can start with two books, both by Owen S. Lange: “Living with Weather Along the British Columbia Coast/The Veil of Chaos” and “The Wind Came All Ways.”

Dale

Carter Johnson
09/01/14 #16208

Sadly, under no scenario could a kayaker be competitive over 750 miles with a sailing team. The results of the Everglades challenges has proven this with over 15 years of history with much smaller boats.

Sad they will not at least do Human powered vs Sail division. I am guessing this would be huge boost to the entries.

I would love to duke it out with a team of rowers or anybody(s) in what ever paddle/pedal/row/oar boat.

Cannot justify the trip though until it at least has 2 divisions.

—– Original Message —–

From: “whatcompaddlers” <whatcompaddlers@… <mailto:whatcompaddlers@…> >
To: “whatcompaddlers” <whatcompaddlers@… <mailto:whatcompaddlers@…> >
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:06:37 PM
Subject: Re: [whatcompaddlers] Re: New monster race

RE: The Race to Alaska (R2A)

I am in direct contact with Jake Beattie, the Executive Director of the Wooden Boat Foundation and have already had several email exchanges discussing the route and rules. Although the video is very compelling and professional with a spiffy website to get you excited, the WBF hasn't even worked out the details/rules about the first day of the race, let alone the rest of the race. Whether or not food drops will be allowed has not yet been decided. It seems absurd to claim you can buy food along the way but not use food drops. There are ten months to go for the details of this race to get hammered out. The rules are going to change for a awhile as the organizers wait to see how many entries are submitted, and what the Canadian and US Coast Guards have to say about it. It's $50 to enter (although not so stated on the website… you find out afterwards in follow-up emails).

But the reality about food drops is that they are not reliable. If mailed to a destination, they have to go through customs. Many kayakers have arrived at a food drop to find that the food hasn't yet arrived. Some drops never do arrive. When I rowed my trip in 2004, I carried three months worth of food, and when home discovered one month's worth would have done nicely because half of the journey is along Vancouver Island which has services (and restaurants). But, it all depends on the route one takes. And right now, you can take any route you like as long as you abide by the rules (which may change).

Just as a headzup for those that really don't know the nuts and bolts of the IP, you might want to start researching a route and talk to local people that have actually done it solo: Jennie Hahn, Susan Conrad, Derek Crook and myself. You can also contact folks like John Peaveler (currently in Kuwait), Susan Dandridge (Port Townsend) and Robin Clark (south Whidbey Island). I can give you their contact info. There are probably several others that have gone the full distance in one trip, solo and tandem–sail, paddle and oar–that I haven't named. Then, locally there are Peter Marcus and Glen Biernacki who have spent many years fishing up there. And there is a lot of reading material about solo and tandem rowing, paddling and sailing journeys between here and Ketchikan and north.

The race will be discussed at the Wooden Boat Festival, which starts next Friday in Port Townsend. I will be speaking there, as will Colin Angus (National Geo Explorer of the Year for his human-powered circumnav of the globe). Colin is from Vancouver Island and is encyclopedic in his knowledge about food for expeditions on the water and about the entire coastline of Vancouver Island having rowed around it in 15 1/2 days… and yes, I'm sure he's thinking about a row/sail in the R2A.

Food drops are not allowed. You can buy things along the way but the rules state that things can not be organized ahead of time. No outside help.

bill

09/01/14 #16210

As a sailer I would like to point out that the sailing conditions in Southern Florida are much better than what one can expect in the PNW. Contrary to what some people think, the PNW is not a great place for sailing. It's a great place for paddling and motor sailing though. If you have ever tried to sail up the inside passage and not turn on your engine, the reality of how may miles you can make in a week is depressing. If I was going to build a sailing/rowing boat for the trip I would one fast rowing boat and sailing as a downwind or reaching option only. Maybe a lightweight trimaran
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text

bill
09/01/14 #16211

Oops.. Didn't finish that.

Maybe a two person lightweight trimaran set up to paddle well would work but the mast and outriggers will kill you in a headwind and it won't go to windward for sh*t so you would most likely still be faster paddling it up wind with all that….. Fun.

No wind is of course a bummer in a sailing boat but wind on your nose is good because your moving but slow to cover miles to windward. Sailboats designed to make quick headway to windward are not something you would want to row. Relying on any type of sailing to make good time in the PNW is risky at best

Some dedicated sailing friends ( hate to turn on there motor) “sailed” there T-Bird to Bella Bella from Seattle. They were gone for a month and estimated they sailed ( productively, like 2 mph or more ) 20% of the trip. The rest was motoring, there was just no wind to speak of. Only one day did they spend several hours at hull speed. This is my experience in the PNW as well.

I still think it will be won by ether a double kayak and two very sleep deprived paddlers or rowers desperately needing shut eye as well.

Bill

Michael Gregory
09/01/14 #16212

Wow, 65kts - impressive speed. In a race such R2AK there would be a couple other factors; sea-worthiness and comfort. Fifty years ago, don't laugh, John Letcher cruised Aleutka through these same waters.

Aleutka was a 25 ft monohull sloop with oarlocks to row as needed. Granted, a bit slow to windward but, off the wind would sail fast. An similar updated rig might be adapted for R2AK.

A multi-hull could do but, would not point as high to windward as the mono-hull, be tough to row up-wind, and could possibly come apart in big confused chop.

West coast of Vancouver Is. might be tough for a small boat in a big westerly. So the boat of choice would be a compromise of speed, sea worthiness, and comfort. Could be fun though:)


David Scherrer
09/01/14 #16213

Me thinks this would do the trick….now where to find one around here.
Sailing Away - MOCAS OC6 Sailing Canoe
Sailing Away - MOCAS OC6 Sailing Canoe

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