Surfski Knowledge Base

bill
09/29/13 #14937

Hello paddlers,

I'm in the process of rethinking my paddling attire for winter paddling.

I was out in Saturdays stiff breeze doing laps off westpoint with a couple of other paddlers and was not enjoying my drysuit. First, it was just too bulky to put in a good stroke. I had a middle weight one piece insulation on with a mid weight smart wool t-shirt under it. Not that much insulation really. Still, it was all very bulky, mostly do to the zipper across the chest. Second issue was that I cooked. I jumped in to cool off at one point and it helped but I was still getting hot enough to sap energy at times.

So.. I'm interested in wetsuit options. Some people use two pices set ups and other one piece. I'm interested in hearing what worked and what didn't and why. I'm thinking of a new super stretchy one pice in ether a 2mm or a 2/3mm. I'm trying to find a balance between reasonable immersion protection and not frying while putting out a good effort…. Or at least not totally overheating.

Sense I don't want to drop $300+ On a super stretchy new wetsuit only to find it doesn't really work for me, I thought I would ask the crowd. Any wetsuit success out there? … What worked and didn't?

Bill Cirino
Seattle.

John Rybczyk
09/29/13 #14938

HI Bill, I'm an intermediate paddler. If you think that a drysuit is too bulky for a good stroke, you're going to hate a full wetsuit. (Ed. note - this comment is outdated - the newer, stretchier wetsuits are far less restrictive) Even a super stretchy one will feel very restrictive in the arms and shoulders, and you'll feel it every stroke. And you'll be hot. And you'll get tired quickly because you're hot and it's hard to move your arms.

I used to wear a full wetsuit, and I still do when it's really cold and the water is rocking, and I think that I might go in. With my 5/3 I can stay in the water for a very long time and be warm. I surf in that wetsuit on the coast and the water is colder there than in the Sound. It's great peace of mind.

However, my go to winter paddle attire now is a farmer john, which can be paired with a variety of tops (from rash guard to a thicker neoprene top with gortex shell), depending up on the temperature and the size of the waves. It's MUCH less restrictive in the shoulders because your top is not attached to your bottom. You can also shed or add a layer, even on the fly if you're bendy and have good balance. If you fall in with this get up, it's a little colder than a wetsuit (especially initially) but with a warm neoprene top, you can still be warm for quite a while in the water. You can also layer tops and unzip the farmer john for fine tuning.

In the end, you can't, at the same time, dress to be warm for extended periods in the water AND be cool and comfortable while paddling in the boat, I err on side of staying alive in the water, and sweating a little bit on top of it. Especially when it's rockin'. Given that, the farmer john, in my opinion does the best job of splitting the difference. Also, this is coming from a guy who likes to surf the wind waves more than I like to race. If I was going balls out all of the time, training for races, maybe my answer would be different.

John Rybczyk

Editor's comment - my experience with Farmer Johns (particularly those with zippers) does not match John's. John is an experienced surfer, so maybe he has tested his Farmer John during extended swims. My own experience (rivers) is that they provide too much flow through the zippers and top during extended immersions in cold water, to make me feel safe for a long swim during a downwinder in the colder part of the year in Bellingham Bay. Bottom line - test it and make sure you have the level of protection you need for being in the water a while. That requirement should trump any other comfort concern. If the additional top added to the Farmer John actually reduces flow through adequately then maybe you'll be okay

Dale McKinnon
09/29/13 #14940

Has anyone investigated what Andy Holmes has to offer? Check out (Link no longer valid). After reading the product descriptions, these suits seem to make Kokotat or wetsuits functionally obsolete, in terms of flexibility and comfort. I'm considering talking to Andy and checking out what he has to offer.

bill
09/30/13 #14963

Ok yahoo has twice deleted my response while typing…. very irritating.

I'm finding the new top end wetsuits not very restrictive at all. They're very gummy, stretchy and I'm told very warm for there thickness. Like 2/3 mm suits being as warm as 4/3mm suits of just a few years ago and much more flexible. I sat in a O'Neill Psyco 3 2/3mm suit. I sat and went threw the motions of paddling and it felt fine and very flexible, its a top dollar suite though, like $450.

I never did like farmer johns. I wore them for years in whitewater and every swim wondered why?… just too much flush. But putting a hydroskin shirt over it would definitely help. Still, one piece suits are so much warmer for a given thickness. Maybe something like a Patagonia R1 2mm wetsuit with a heated vest if needed would be the ticket….. maybe. That drysuit looks interesting. But I'm afraid of what paddling with all that material under the outer suit would be like? Can't help with rotation i imagine.

Bill

allipp01
09/30/13 #14966

I'm wondering if anyone has tried those chemical wetsuit heaters. They're like the ubiquitous handwarmers sold in most sporting goods stores, but designed to go inside your wetsuit. I think you could take a couple of them along, and if you end up in the water, they'd definitely help keep you warmer.

Reivers Dustin
09/30/13 #14967

I'm still a bit rattled about this weekend. Years ago I was last person to see a couple of fine young men as they were putting into Wildcat cove. It wasn't a big day, but they were new and didn't want any advise from me - at cost of their lives. When I do a workout paddle I do not launch with the group. If I'm with the group at all, I give up on my own private paddle. I know Simon does this, and Brandon and a few others. I have a 'cherished belief' that all whatcompaddlers do like I do. Of course it's not true. Although anyone can see that the respect and care we have for each other is genuine. There are just some really different life experiences. As Morris posted a couple of weeks ago, there is a risk of groupthink.

Since starting this site maybe 6 years ago, many of these conversations have been repeated. I guess really that is a hopeful thing. When something goes wrong, you guys are in there looking for what broke. Looking for better ways, sharing when there's better gear. Back in the day, nobody I knew had neoprene stuff, or leashes, radios, etc. Have a radio because it is your only shot at getting a taxi when all your other stuff fails.

rd

Michael Gregory
09/30/13 #14969

Hi Bill, Wet suits make so much sense, to me, for cold water paddling. Not just for warmth though - when I've been bucked in to the water bobbing around with my ski going one way and my paddle the other, I've been grateful for the the neoprene buoyancy and flexibility that enhance a quick remount and survival. I've found that mating up a farmer john with separate neoprene top best accommodate paddlers posture and rotation. Pro Motion based in Hood River OR is a renowned wetsuit maker (suits for all of our board kiting/ sailing/etc friends for years) makes a brilliant farmer john neoprene paddlers wetsuit. Throw in some neoprene booties and go kick butt! I just know that everyone understands, and you can't 'til you've been there, that we only get maybe 2 maybe 3 chances to nail that remount, then the odds of a successful remount diminish way too fast and I needn't belabor the issue, but just wear what will get you back on you ski fast! Unless ya really gotta use that new radio you just ordered.

Regards, Mike.

zach 10/01/13 #14973

I have an oneil gooru wetsuit from a few years ago. It is 2mm thoughout with 3mm only in the torso. It cost under $200. It is so soft and supple i feel like i could run a marathon in it. There is absolutely zero restriction of movement. Im sure other companies make similar things. In cold water i prefer to overdress and then take a dip if i overheat.

bill
10/01/13 #14974

Thanks Zack. When paddling with good effort for say 45 min, do you find your too hot or is the suit a good compromise? Would you go to a 4/3 or is the 3/2 what you would get again? Bill

zach

10/02/13 #14987

Bill, I actually have the 2mm guru wetsuit as well as a 4/3 wetsuit. I use the thinner wetsuit about 3 times more than the thick one. If air and water are in the 40s, and there are sizable waves, then I use the thick one. In the 50s i use the thin suit. In the 60s i have hydroskins farmer john. That's roughly how i do it. if i'm close to shore and trying to get a workout i might go thinner and off shore in big conditions i might go thicker. The nice thing about the thin suit is that it is so comfortable and so much less prone to overheating that I end up using it in a lot of conditions where I would previously have tried to get by with hydro skins. I think it also depends on how wet you get. When I started this sport I would swim every 5 minutes and needed 5 remount attempts to get in the boat. Now I almost never fall in and my remount is solid.

zach
10/02/13 #14988

To answer your question more directly Bill, i think you would get much more use out of a 2mm wetsuit, especially if you are doing shorter high intensity paddles. A 2mm full coverage wetsuit buys you lots immersion time in cold water. In my experience it is no hotter while paddling than the standard 3mm farmer john with paddle jacket option. But once you are in the water it is much much warmer.

Zach

bill
10/02/13 #14989

Thanks Zack. That's very helpful.

Bill

Bob Putnam
10/02/13 #14992

I like the Kokatat Goretex Lightweight paddling suit, with Mysterioso fleece top and bottom underneath. Its pretty cozy. The suit has a neoprene neck and not a latex gasket so its comfy. There is no sprayskirt tunnel cover so its cheaper than the kayak Expedition suits. The light material breaths well. Its about $700. Less than your standard drysuit that runs A lot of the guys in Vancouver, myself included, are wearing the neon Think PFD, it has a nice D-Ring at the chest to connect to a leash. Centre pocket, for a radio, or cell phone, and mesh side pockets for flares or some food.

One mistake we surf ski paddlers make is that we dress for the work-out and not necessarily for immersion. This decision should be made on your personal assessment of they likelihood that you will be swimming. On an extended downwind at this time of the year where there is the potential for a swim, like in the Ambleside Tide Rip I'm going to wear the full meal deal as described above. If I'm going for a 1 hour workout in Deep Cove I'll wear NRS Hydroskin or Kokatat has a great lightweight neoprene with a brushed liner. They call it Neo “Core” or Sun “core” But this would not be sufficient for an extended immersion.

Kokatat Neocore