Surfski Knowledge Base

Dan's adventure
Dean Bumstead 12/12/22 #32856

Dan – that is quite a story, and glad it had a happy ending and you retained the majority of your cognitive ability. That said…..I have a nice inflatable you can use to chase me around in. Even the score a bit since you’ve been doing a secret weight lifting program. On a more serious note, I’ll be looking for a handheld VHF DSC capable radio if anyone has suggestions and also a fatter boat.

Dean

David Scherrer 12/12/22 #32857
This seemed to be a good deal Dean……https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08X12XK96/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
D.
Paul Reavley 12/12/22 #32861

The HX890 is what I have and this seems to be as good a time as any to revisit the manual (lots of interesting stuff there!)

I have not found anything about automatic position resending so far in the HX890 manual. However there is a lot of stuff about tracking and polling functions. Much of this may be difficult or impossible to manage on the water, but I can see some potential for once someone is back on land or in a more stable vessel. The HX890 has an individual MMSI (the required US registration numbers used to uniquely identify our radios for DSC) directory (holds 100 entries I think) where we can enter our friend's MMSI numbers along with their names. This allows for individual and group tracking as well as navigation to radios that have registered MMSI numbers. With such an MMSI number the HX890 can poll for the position of the corresponding radio. A radio (at least the HX890) receiving a polling request can be setup to automatically respond by sending its position or setup to manually choose to respond or not. I suspect that I should set my radio to automatically respond to such polls. I would also like to know if the CG tries to use such polling once they have the MMSI number from a distress call?? (most of these functions have test modes where you can test between individual radios)

You can also initiate individual calls that ring the receiving radio and request the receiving radio to respond and switch to voice communication over a channel other than 16. This of course may be difficult or impossible for the receiver to respond to (I suppose I am probably most interested in the position polling function already mentioned). Receiving HX890s can be setup to automatically respond to such a call and switch to the requested channel. But then you may still have the difficulties of voice communication over noise.

The HX890 is quite a bit bigger than the handy HX40s, but I can just fit it in either of my front Vaikobi (older style) pockets with the antenna sticking out (there is a loop to leash it to inside the pocket). The zipper stays up and the radio does not seem to interfere with my paddling or remounts (you probably want to check this for yourself). Anyone is welcome to take a look at it.

One final comment directed at myself as much as anyone else. All of our technology, techniques, safeguards, equipment etc. have less chance of working if we (I) do not practice and get proficient in their use. And often they can't really be fairly evaluated for usefulness or effectiveness in adverse conditions if we haven't practiced and tested them. If we have done so then any judgement we might make about the range of their usefulness in adverse conditions begins to have a more reasonable basis in fact. And I sure as hell don't want to think I have some safety shield if I am just carrying along stuff with me that I haven't practiced/tested using (my VHF radio would be an example of one device I haven't practiced enough with or learned as much as I should about)

Paul

Tom Fawell 12/12/22 #32865

Paul,

I looked into getting the the HX890 but the water activated light feature gave me pause.

Water Activated Emergency Strobe Light
If the radio falls in the water an emergency strobe light is automatically activated, even when the unit is turned off!!! The strobe can be reconfigured to flash on and off, flash SOS, or set to stay on continuously.

I do a far amount or sea kayaking and wouldn’t want a light staying on (using battery power) if it got wet (say after a roll or a wave). Have you had an issue with this?
Cheers,
Tom

Michael Peterson 12/12/22 #32866

Stranger that follows this group, chiming in.

I have this radio. I’ve never had the light turn on while paddling.

Note that it has about a ten hour battery life, which I discovered at about ten hours into the last seventy48. I will need a second battery for the upcoming seventy48.

Also, sorry, in retrospect I should have asked permission, but I forwarded Dan’s account to our Gig Harbor surfski group. Very instructive write up, thanks.

Mike Peterson
Gig Harbor

Paul Reavley 12/12/22 #32869

Tom,

The default setting is for the light to come on in water when the radio is powered on. Coming on when the radio is not powered on is a non-default settings option, And this water hazard strobe feature can also be turned off completely in settings. I kept the default setting for a long time and I may have had the strobe come on once or twice in the past (not in a long time even when I swam) but went off after I turned the radio off as you would expect with the default. I now have it completely turned off.

Reivers Dustin 12/12/22 #32880

The cellphone topic for marine distress has some problems for me in the bay: no coverage. My T-Mobile doesn't seem to have good service out there. The Iwatch and most cells are via cell-towers. These are placed for best bang-for-buck locations (concentration of people). Emergency calls route to 911 dispatch who can patch through to first responders. As you might know, there can be variability in how the 911 operators behave. Or you can call CG direct - but good luck with that (cold fingers, wet phone surface, one-handed operation, getting the crap beat out of you by waves, …)

On the other hand, cell phone is wonderful in the gorge.

Good catch Paul on the Standard Horizon 4 min repeat. I wonder if all radios are the same.

Dan Mayhew 12/12/22 #32881

Thanks Jeff. Yes, my radio is registered.

As Reivers pointed the DSC signal auto repeats according to the manual. That was my assumption before the CG told me that wasn't the case. I will circle back with the CG to clarify.

allipp@…12/13/22 #32884

I think the one concern about the Apple iWatch would be cell coverage. However, it says that it will dial 911 and also text your location to your emergency contacts. The location is periodically updated until you turn off the emergency function. It does not state how often the update occurs. From what I understand, texts can go through when cell coverage is limited, though not when it's non-existent.

If you were to either have several paddling friends, or better yet, direct text access to Fire Rescue or the Coast Guard, they would get texts with the fact that you're in an emergency situation and they'd have your location with unknown update times. Beau, Collin, is there a Fire Rescue number that receives texts and could be input into the emergency contact? Does 911 have text availability? I believe I read somewhere that they can now get texts.

While the DSC no doubt saved Dan, would things have been quicker if someone on the beach had his location immediately and could have passed that on to the rescuers? If Collin, who had just finished his paddle with us, or Beau, who was on duty, had that info could they have gotten the details to the boat crew out searching for Dan?

Again, this brings up so many questions. Heck, would a simple flare (or two) have helped facilitate his rescue?

Jon Denham 12/13/22 #32885

Another thing to consider perhaps…in talking to the captain of the fireboat that was out that day (2 of the 3 firefighters operating the Bellingham Fire Dept fireboat out looking for Dan that day were CG personnel in former lives…) one of his main takeaways was that if a smoke flare could’ve been used (Fine motor skills in those conditions are problematic. I’d be curious to know if Dan thinks he could’ve gotten a smoke flare operational.) and it was functioning, they could’ve made a beeline for Dan, in theory. I’ll be looking for smoke flare options that’ll reasonably fit in PFDs.

Dan Mayhew 12/13/22 #32886

I have often thought about carrying flares, and smoke flares sound like way to go.

So much depends on when one makes the decision to call for help. I waited too long on Saturday. I waited until I had proof that my body was starting to fail.

I don't know what it takes to send off a flare. If it would have required removing my gloves at that point, it would have been challenging.

Chatting with the CG again yesterday, and Beau, the message is clear: CALL EARLY!

Jon Denham 12/13/22 #32888

https://www.practical-sailor.com/safety-seamanship/daytime-distress-signals-flares-shine-in-the-wind

It kinda sounds that in real life windy conditions, the smoke flare smoke is not particularly visible, which kinda makes sense. Their conclusion above was to use a high intensity handheld flare.

allipp@…12/13/22 #32889

Dan, thanks to both Denise’s, I’m pretty sure they were already out looking for you prior to your distress signals.

Paul Reavley 12/13/22 #32891

We might want to include RSA SafeTRX in this discussion also. There are excellent local paddlers who have used it for some time and I assume the phone app relies on cellular. I am wondering what their experience has been like in Bellingham Bay and other locales?

My understanding is that we don't have the SafeTRX emergency call option in the USA - or at least not in Bellingham. I don't know whether any other communities are paying to have the registered coverage infrastructure.

So in our locale the app can provide real time tracking to a list of contacts you can choose and you choose between having the app send alerts to your list if you are overdue or sending an alert if your battery power falls below 10%.

Maybe this one is just better for on-the-water tracking of your tripmates, but could also be helpful if you are communicating search location to rescue personnel who don't have the benefit of getting a DSC signal??? It may very well have limitations in connectivity in adverse conditions (you and your phone are in the water or your boat and your phone are upside-down, etc.) or be problematic if you carry your phone on your boat and get separated from your boat.

Paul Reavley 12/13/22 #32895

Reivers,

The ICOM manuals I have looked at say their resend is every 3.5 - 4.5 minutes. Instructions are very similar to SHorizon ones. I notice that both ICOM and SH say to hold down the emergency button for 3 seconds. but some demos I have watched on youtube seem to show shorter button presses.

Tyler Irwin 12/13/22 #32898

I carry my iPhone with me now that they are reasonably waterproof and I've had good coverage with Verizon throughout the length of the bay.

beau whitehead 12/13/22 #32900
2 things:

Our fire boat received the distress signal 2 or 3 times, but the latitude/longitude coordinates only came up as zeros on their equipment.

Secondly; you can text 911 directly in Whatcom county. The dispatchers will still try to call you back to speak verbally, but will go solely via text if necessary.

Dan Mayhew 12/13/22 #32901

I have the definitive answer on how my radio, the Cobra MR HH600W FLT GPS BT, processes the DSC distress call. Talking with the manufacturer cleared this up.

When the distress button is hit it sends out the distress signal for 2 minutes. If you push the button again within the 2 minutes it cancels the distress call. if you let the alarm continue it will stop after the two-minute mark is reached. To resend the signal with new coordinates you need to hit the distress signal again. This is how this particular radio works. I have seen instructions online for other radios that automatically resend a signal with new coordinates every 3 and a half to four and a half minutes until canceled. That was not a feature of my radio.

It is very possible that I sent signals and canceled signals when I was in the water. It is clear that a number of signals made it to the CG so they could follow the dots. With a different radio, one push would have sufficed.

Dan

Tyler Irwin 12/14/22 #32907

Beau - do you know whether or not emergency responders can receive a “share my location” text from a cell phone? I believe I read somewhere that it'll give people about 5 meters of accuracy.

beau whitehead 12/14/22 #32908

I can’t speak for law enforcement, but fire/EMS does not have that capability currently. (It seems like it should be easy, since I can find my daughter, wife and mother at any given time if they have their phones with them)
What can be done via dispatch, is a cell phone call can be tracked via latitude/longitude coordinates, using triangulation software and cell tower pings. Not always super accurate.

So it is a possibility that a cell call from the bay could be pin pointed that way. Not sure if that’s been tested much on the water. Used plenty on land though.

Ian Bolden 12/15/22 #32909

What a harrowing adventure that was! Glad the ending was as good as could be in that situation.
On the topic of cell phones and on-water communication, I use a very robust and powerful cell phone designed for use by the likes of first responders, etc… Sonim XP8. The screen functions with gloved or wet fingers, it has a programmable push-to-talk button as well as a dedicated red emergency button that enables access quickly and easily. The phone also has one of the highest waterproof ratings available.
The phone is a bit of a brick, in that it is quite heavy in comparison to more popular brands, but with that you get a very tough phone that doesn't require a case (it's already built in), and has a lanyard attachment point built in as well. The company has just released the XP10 which is an Android based 5G compatible unit… XP8 is 4G.

While a cell phone doesn't do the same job as VHF or epirb units, it does give me more piece of mind. Just thought I would throw in my experience here.
Cheers all!

Reivers Dustin 12/15/22 #32912

I got a heads up from Goodson in the gorge.

- Home Valley to Mitchell Point has some holes in coverage which often don't even let texts through.

He didn't say which provider, but they mostly use the same towers (“Co-Locate). There's a teeny difference between formats for range, but usually 10 sq. miles per tower. Unless mountains. Goodson also complemented me on “twitter for paddlers”. Can we call it “Pitter”? “Twaddler”? “The best hope for free speech on the internet”…. uh, well. Maybe not that last one.

robcasey 12/15/22 #32916 Rocket flares require unscrewing a plastic cap which releases a metal chain. You pull the chain hard and it fires the flare (holding it away from your face).

I was involved on a rescue in Seattle years ago where I fired a flare and paramedics who couldn't find our beach location suddenly burst out of the bushes and found us at the West Point Lighthouse. Was for a capsized boater who had been in the water for an hour, we hauled him to shore calling EMT on our vhf. Another option but mainly for directing it a boat or a helo is the laser flare. But I think the rocket flares are more visible and when anyone sees one, they know something's wrong. https://www.paddlerssupply.com/brands/great-laser/

robcasey 12/15/22 #32918

Teaching regularly in Deception Pass we've found phones don't work there due to the canyon walls including more open Bowman Bay. May be a Navy thing. Interestingly during last last year's DP Dash/Challenge the CG commander tried calling me on my phone after the race. I never got the message until we were leaving on Hwy 20 headed to Bastion Brewery.

We use VHF's as 2-way radios between guides and for emergency calls if needed.

And visual hand signals on-water if radios don't work and/or it's too loud with bridge and wave/current noise. We demo the hand signals with students before leaving the shore. I've found those useful in noisy downwinders though of course requires a quick stop of paddling to do so.

On the Maliko Run, SUP downwind coach Jaecey Suda who used to run the shuttle service uses the BBTalking Surf Hats for students on water. I could hear her very clearly while downwinding. Great for instruction but was distracting with everything going on. https://www.murrays.com/product/bbtalkin-surf-hat-headset-waterproof-copy/

Other stuff in my PFD:
-signal reflector which is useful to shine at emergency crews if looking for you.
-whistle - not very effective offshore and/or in high winds