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--- vega_scuppers [2021/11/19 19:49]
preavley created
+++ vega_scuppers [2025/03/23 19:50] (current)
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 ====== Vega Scupper Q/A ======
+[[:modifications|Main Surfski Modifications Page]]
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-**Tom Halsted** Aug 26   #29954
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 26, 2021 #29954
 Anyone else with a Vega Flex have issues with it not draining much - even at 8mph? It means I'm carrying a lot of sloshing water and weight around while paddling.
@@ Line 14: / Line 16: @@
 Thoughts?\\
 Ideas?\\
-Other than to stop using the term "proctologist"...
+Other than to stop using the term "proctologist"…
-**beau whitehead** Aug 26   #29956  \\
+**beau whitehead** Aug 26 #29956\\
 Tom, have you tried contacting Kai directly?
@@ Line 22: / Line 24: @@
 \\
-**Michael Lee** Aug 26   #29960
+**Michael Lee** Aug 26 #29960
 Hi Tom,
-Please let us know if you get any feedback from Kai regarding the drain. The Vega  has received many rave reviews, but there seems to be room for improvement in drain performance.
+Please let us know if you get any feedback from Kai regarding the drain. The Vega has received many rave reviews, but there seems to be room for improvement in drain performance.
 Michael J. Lee
-**Paul Reavley** Aug 26   #29961  \\
+**Paul Reavley** Aug 26 #29961\\
 There have been a number of comments on surfski.info about the drainage:
 [[https://www.surfski.info/forum/19-boats/20176-in-depth-review-kai-wa-a-vega-flex-vs-fenn-swordfish-s.html#38816|surfski.info Flex/Vega drains and mods]]
-**Reivers Dustin** Aug 26   #29962  \\
+**Reivers Dustin** Aug 26 #29962\\
-woah.  excellent discussion on surfski.info ... great link Paul.
+woah. excellent discussion on surfski.info … great link Paul.
-I have an inch of water in the footwell at all speeds.  Except I can't look in there at high speeds - that would be multi-tasking.
+I have an inch of water in the footwell at all speeds. Except I can't look in there at high speeds - that would be multi-tasking.
-Drainage is the one design fail in an otherwise gamechanger design.  I'm convinced that there were copyright/patent obstacles for the builder putting any of the proven designs in there. I'll study the workarounds a bit before carving up my very expensive boat.
+Drainage is the one design fail in an otherwise gamechanger design. I'm convinced that there were copyright/patent obstacles for the builder putting any of the proven designs in there. I'll study the workarounds a bit before carving up my very expensive boat.
-Because the flex has a different 'feel', people think it is less stable.  Hopefully this misunderstanding will last a while longer.  As Oscar said many years ago, "lighter is better."
+Because the flex has a different 'feel', people think it is less stable. Hopefully this misunderstanding will last a while longer. As Oscar said many years ago, "lighter is better."
 rd
-**James Schulz** Aug 26   #29963
+**James Schulz** Aug 26 #29963
 Tom,
@@ Line 52: / Line 54: @@
 Here’s a two minute video with a 60 second surf at the end surfing some mosquito farts.
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfttlsXFITA
+[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfttlsXFITA|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfttlsXFITA]]
 There is a phillips head screw right behind the venturi on the bottom of the boat that somehow holds the guide rails for the original Vega drain system. I used JD’s demo boat in the Gorge recently and he had removed that screw and guide rails. It might not make the venturi more efficient but it may help it gravity drain the water level inside the cockpit to the water level outside the boat a bit quicker. You can see the Tee inside under the back of the venturi. The bullet helps a little bit. I may try a couple pieces of closed cell foam under each calf with an inch gap in-between that would reduce the amount of water a bit.
-**Reivers Dustin** Aug 26   #29965  \\
+{{:equipment:scupper:scupper_bullet.jpeg?direct&300x225|scupper_bullet.jpeg}}
-Great vid James.  But dang!  how long are your legs?  Are you like, 90% leg and 10% everything else?
-That chuckle at 1:40 is perfect.  That's just the way this boat feels when it gets those freebie rides.
+**Reivers Dustin** Aug 26 #29965\\
+Great vid James. But dang! how long are your legs? Are you like, 90% leg and 10% everything else?
+That chuckle at 1:40 is perfect. That's just the way this boat feels when it gets those freebie rides.
 rd
-**Tom Halsted** Aug 27   #29969
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 27 #29969
 Wow, this sure flexed some emotions and ideas from folks!
@@ Line 72: / Line 76: @@
 -Tom
-**Tom Halsted** Aug 27   #29970  \\
+{{:equipment:scupper:scupper1.jpeg?direct&200x72|scupper1.jpeg}}{{:equipment:scupper:scupper2.jpeg?direct&200x128|scupper2.jpeg}}
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 27 #29970\\
 Kai's response, plus some pix of their add-on mod that looks like a better version of my tweak:
@@ Line 81: / Line 87: @@
 I'm also asking if he'll send me one of his slip-in option.\\
 Or, maybe I'll grind on some PVC piping or other plastic, to replicate their version.
+{{:equipment:scupper:scupper3.jpeg?direct&169x164|scupper3.jpeg}}{{:equipment:scupper:scupper4.jpeg?direct&200x84|scupper4.jpeg}}
 \\
-**OPS** Aug 27   #29971  \\
+**OPS** Aug 27 #29971\\
 Or
-https://www.oceanpaddlesports.com/store-categories/Bullets-CARBON-p79286407
+[[https://www.oceanpaddlesports.com/store-categories/Bullets-CARBON-p79286407|https://www.oceanpaddlesports.com/store-categories/Bullets-CARBON-p79286407]]
 DeAnne Hemmens\\
 Ocean Paddlesports
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text\\
+\\
-Reply\\
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 27 #29972\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Tom HalstedAug 27   #29972  \\
 Good lookin' bullets!\\
 Thanks, DeAnne.
@@ Line 103: / Line 108: @@
 JD, let us know when you can toss some our way.
-Thanks for the group-think on this occasionally draining topic...\\
+Thanks for the group-think on this occasionally draining topic…
-Reply\\
-Like\\
+**beau whitehead** Aug 27 #29974
-More\\
-beau whiteheadAug 27   #29974  \\
+If you can source an old shaft from a carbon SUP paddle, I've had great luck shaping replacement scupper shields out of those in the past as well.
-If you can source an old shaft from a carbon SUP paddle, I've had great luck shaping replacement scupper shields out of those in the past as well.\\
-Reply\\
+**OPS** Aug 27 #29975
-Like\\
-More\\
-OPSAug 27   #29975  \\
 I also have some hoods that are left over parts from years of this business. If you order bullets I’ll throw one or two in for free. Might work might not.
@@ Line 118: / Line 121: @@
 Ocean Paddlesports
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text\\
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 27 #29976
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-person liked this\\
-Tom HalstedAug 27   #29976  \\
 Plan B from a hand-ground section of PVC pipe (inserted and secured with clear tape).\\
 It may be clunky, but I'll try it out this weekend and see how it drains.
-Reply\\
+{{:equipment:scupper:scupper5.jpeg?direct&200x103|scupper5.jpeg}}
-Like\\
-More\\
+**Duncan Howat** Aug 27 #29982
-Duncan HowatAug 27   #29982  \\
-Tom 2 other points. 1. A little water weight down low in the boat could give you added Stability in 2 to 3 foot cross chop. 2 If you just keep your speed above 6.9 -7.2 and above  -waters gone. Specially downwind when it counts.  Flex Boy
+Tom 2 other points. 1. A little water weight down low in the boat could give you added Stability in 2 to 3 foot cross chop. 2 If you just keep your speed above 6.9 -7.2 and above -waters gone. Specially downwind when it counts. Flex Boy
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 27 #29983
+Duncan, I agree and it all works fine if it's just a little water weight down low. But when the boat doesn't drain it often fills up under my bum. And that's a bit too much water for decent stability. So, draining faster should help
+**Dennis Mowry** Aug 27 #29985
+I purchased a bailer from Nelo for $50 and got a price from Sterling's Kayak for $1200 minimum to have it installed. I'm sure they would do a nice job.
+Checking other options.
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text\\
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-person liked this\\
-Tom HalstedAug 27   #29983  \\
-Duncan, I agree and it all works fine if it's just a little water weight down low. But when the boat doesn't drain it often fills up under my bum. And that's a bit too much water for decent stability. So, draining faster should help\\
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Dennis MowryAug 27   #29985  \\
-I purchased a bailer from Nelo for $50 and got a price from Sterling's Kayak for $1200 minimum to have it installed. I'm sure they would do a nice job. Checking other options.\\
 I'm considering just drilling a hole straight down from where it goes in, then install a hood and bullet directly underneath. Then pull out the tube it flows through which exists about couple inches back. Cut off the existing hood and patch all that up. Do some painting.
@@ Line 154: / Line 151: @@
 :D
-Vega Scupper Q/A\\
+**Vega Scupper Q/A\\
-Tom HalstedAug 28   #29987  \\
+Tom Halsted**Aug 28 #29987
 Current best draining tweak is my original cut up card one.
@@ Line 164: / Line 162: @@
 Maybe the fact that the card extends down into the drain at an angle is a factor.
-Still tweaking...\\
+Still tweaking…
-Reply\\
-Like\\
+**David Scherrer** Aug 28 #29988
-More\\
-person liked this\\
+And I assume it needs to be a Barns and Nobel card……
-David ScherrerAug 28   #29988  \\
-And I assume it needs to be a Barns and Nobel card......\\
+**Jon Denham** Aug 28 #29989
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Jon DenhamAug 28   #29989  \\
 Adding carbon bullets from DeAnne to the Swordfish definitely made it start to drain at lower speeds. It starts draining at about 3.5mph. Before adding them is was prob 4 or 4.25 mph before they started to drain noticeably. YMMV.
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text\\
+{{:equipment:scupper:scupper7.jpg?direct&300x400|scupper7.jpg}}{{:equipment:scupper:scupper8.jpg?direct&300x225|scupper8.jpg}}
-Reply\\
-Like\\
+**James Schulz** Aug 28 #29990
-More\\
-James SchulzAug 28   #29990  \\
+I tried a trumpet flare shape and it worked crazy well. I used the flared neck of a plastic simply orange juice bottle. I don’t think a straight extension will do much. I think that there needs to be an angle increase or flair at the end existing venturi. Just lily dipping and the water was down to the top of the drain hole and after ten strokes the footwell was dry. Duncan’s right, it’s a different boat without the water in the foot well. A bit tippier but much lighter. Upwind it’s a drier ride. Going up the waves the bow rides higher so less water comes in and much less bow slap after going over the wave not having all that water in the foot well. Much improved. I made the turn about a third of a mile west past the Steamboat Flats marker in WNW 15 mph avg wind speed against a flood tide. Saw the first wave, took three strokes and started hearing the venturi sucking air. Tomorrow should be a winder day at Jetty so more testing. In another month it will be Nuketober! Practice your remounts!
-I tried a trumpet flare shape and it worked crazy well. I used the flared neck of a plastic simply orange juice bottle. I don’t think a straight extension will  do much. I think that there needs to be an angle increase or flair at the end existing venturi. Just lily dipping and the water was down to the top of the drain hole and after ten strokes the footwell was dry. Duncan’s right, it’s a different boat without the water in the foot well. A bit tippier but much lighter. Upwind it’s a drier ride. Going up the waves the bow rides higher so less water comes in and much less bow slap after going over the wave not having all that water in the foot well. Much improved. I made the turn about a third of a mile west past the Steamboat Flats marker in WNW 15 mph avg wind speed against a flood tide. Saw the first wave, took three strokes and started hearing the venturi sucking air. Tomorrow should be a winder day at Jetty so more testing. In another month it will be Nuketober! Practice your remounts!
 Jim Schulz
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text\\
+{{:equipment:scupper:scupper9.jpeg?direct&300x400|scupper9.jpeg}}
-Reply\\
-Like\\
+**Tom Halsted** Aug 30 #29995
-More\\
-person liked this\\
+Yes David, it needs to be a B&N card with exactly $2.58 left on it.
-Tom HalstedAug 30   #29995  \\
-Edited Aug 30\\
+And thanks, for the flare idea, James.
-Yes David, it needs to be a B&N card with exactly $2.58 left on it.\\
-And thanks, for the flare idea, James.\\
 I will try feathering the trailing edge of my PVC pipe version to see if it makes a diff.\\
 And I think we should try tuning these various options to see if we can hit specific notes when they start sucking air.\\
-Combine hydrodynamics with some acoustic/musical engineering....\\
+Combine hydrodynamics with some acoustic/musical engineering….
-Reply\\
-Like\\
+**Tim Niemier** Sep 16 #30104\\
-More\\
-Tim NiemierSep 16   #30104  \\
 Vega Scupper group,
-I think what is going on here is that the water has to "separate" from the scoop that draws the water out.  I imagine that they buffed the edge of the scoop round which didn't let the water separate.  I put a tiny bit of weatherstrip only about 1/16 of an inch high and it drained like crazy.  I think some thick tape will be more durable.  I like the insert behind the scoop and think that will help also.
+I think what is going on here is that the water has to "separate" from the scoop that draws the water out. I imagine that they buffed the edge of the scoop round which didn't let the water separate. I put a tiny bit of weatherstrip only about 1/16 of an inch high and it drained like crazy. I think some thick tape will be more durable. I like the insert behind the scoop and think that will help also.
 On one of my boats I added a one way valve that worked really well so that when you stopped the water didn't come back in.
 Cheers\\
-Tim Niemier\\
+Tim Niemier
-.220.2757\\
-tim@...\\
-onwaterdesigns@...
-Reply\\
+**Paul Reavley** Sep 16 #30105\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Paul ReavleySep 16   #30105  \\
 Thanks Tim - can you show us where you put the tape with a photo?
-More than you wanted to know - surfski.info - one of the additional advantages for the bullets mentioned is that they also reduce overall boat drag a bit.
+[[https://www.surfski.info/tips/story/1056/“hydrodynamic-aspects-of-surfski-drain-scuppers”-or-“the-science-behind-the-bullets”.html|More than you wanted to know - surfski.info]] - one of the additional advantages for the bullets mentioned is that they also reduce overall boat drag a bit.
+(Ed: //2025 - probably going forward Kai Wa'a is including bullets with their scuppers - they are definitely doing it with the Arc//)

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