Surfski Knowledge Base

This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong.
<<races:length_lake_washington_2014|Previous Story^stories:bellingham_stories|Story List^stories:surfers_at_post_point|Next Story>>

===== Unexpected Consequences, Big Ships, DSC, Cold Water and Me =====

**bill** \\
12/07/14 #16615

Yesterday (Saturday) I was involved in a paddling incident that I would rather forget, or at least wish never happened. As part of the grater paddling community I feel I should write up what happened so people can gather what they can from my experience ( as embarrassing as it may be) and hopefully be a little safer on the water.

This is going to be wordy and very long, brace yourself. I don't have enough distance from the event to write it any other way…. This is somewhat cathartic for me.

Pay no attention to the spelling, I can't be bothered at the moment.

So what happened?…\\
Basically, I fell out of my ski (V10 2gen) on a moderate ( at best) downwind, couldn't remount, called the Coast Guard and was rescued by a powerboat responding to the CG's request for assistance.

First a little about me Bill Cirino. I'm 49 and I started paddling surfski's about two and a half years ago after recovering from a rotator cuff injury that kept me out of paddling for some years. I have been paddling 4+ days a week for the last 2 years . Before my injury I was an avid whitewater paddler and sea kayaker with years of experience in both. Bringing my whitewater skills to paddling a ski had the advantage of keeping me in the bucket but that was about it, there is so much more to the sport than just staying upright. I have now unintentionally fallen out of my ski a total of two times. Once in the gorge and once Saturday. Up until yesterday I have had no problems remounting the V10. I have been practicing in bouncy water with no issues nor when remounting the only other time I have fallen out. That time was down in the gorge in similar conditions to yesterday…..

With my run of the mill bone fides out of the way…..

So what happened?….\\
I hooked up with Jim Schulz and Dean Jordaan for a downwind from Shilshole to Edmonds. I have done this run a number of times before and in stronger wind. I was wearing NRS 2mm bottoms and a O'neill 1.5 mm top, a Think PFD ( super bright) and a day glow yellow/green hat. I also had a Standard Horizon HX851 [[:emergency_signal_devices#dsc|DSC]]/GPS VHF radio with me. My leash set up is one recommended to me for the gorge. It's a long leash attached to the stern handle and running to a belt around my wast (this will become important later)

Since both Jim and Dean are faster than I am Dean asked if I would like a 10 min head start, mostly for safety reasons I suspect. I said I was fine bringing up the rear and that was that. I wasn't sure how far to head out into the sound before turning downwind and suspected we would actually be closer if I followed rather than have them guessing where I turned north but I didn't say that, no particular reason, just didn't. (this decision is my first mistake). At that point the conditions were 10-12 mph and expected to increase. So we paddled out and turned north about a mile or so out. As expected they took off and made distance on me quickly as they both have a lot more time and skill downwind and I'm a notoriously slow starter. There were a few messy bumps left from earlier wind. The wind began to pick up a bit and was blowing about 20 while I was going threw that mile or two section of messy refractory waves about a third of the way threw the run. I felt fine in the messy water and well within my abilities, just slow and trying to figure how best to paddle in this stuff without spending too much energy. Out the other side of the messy stuff things were beginning to develop nicely and I was finally starting to link some good runs. Dean was out of sight and Jim was about 400 yards ahead. After a mile or so I was feeling good, warmed up, surfing and having a fun stress free paddle and sitting on the face of a nice 3 foot wave feeling goo……. Splash! …I was in the water.

I don't know what I did or didn't do but I was in the drink and a bit shocked. It happened so fast, no bracing, zero seeing it coming or even the sensation of falling over. Just happily paddling and then a mouth full of water.

So, time to get my wits about me and remount. I had practiced a lot over the summer and a little in the gorge, remounting three times on each side after every paddle when tired and in bouncy water as well, so I felt good about my abilities to hop back on. So I flipped the ski over my head to the downwind side sorted out my paddle and boat leash, paused and gathered my thoughts and breath and went into autopilot remount mode (maybe mistake number 2). I lunged up onto the ski , paused and waited until there was a pause after the crest, dropped my butt in the bucket and somewhere in the process of swinging my feat in fell over. This was a my second shock as I was fully expecting to be back in the boat and on my way. Looking back at it I'm not sure what I did wrong, actually I can't really remember what I did. I just went onto auto pilot and was in the drink again. What I do know is I didn't go for the legs over the side for stability option, I went straight for feet on the peddles option ( mistake #3). This is how it has working for me in all my practices so didn't even think of the over the side with the feet option….

Ok, time to try again.. Flip the boat over my head to get on the upwind side, untangle lines, elbow in bucket, timing and go for it. I went up and over the other side of the boat head first back into the drink….. WTF?.. How does that even happen? I have never had that happen before. Water out of the nose and it's time to try again…. Chuck the boat over my head to get on the right side, lines look ok, paddle in the right place, elbow in bucket, timing…. Let's make this right! Feet up and lunge….. Same thing, right over the top of the boat headfirst into the drink, but this time I felt a strong tug on my wast when lunging. Water out of my nose I look around and can see the leash is wrapped around the stern and is feeling tight on my wast. Moving back to the stern I can see the leash has a wrap on the stern and when I untangle it I realize it's wrapped around the rudder as well. It had two full wraps around the shaft between the ski and rudder and several twists in the leash after. It took some time to get it unwrapped and free of the rudder with the ski bouncing up and down and with gloves on my hands. It all made sense now. When I lunged up onto the ski the leash wrapped around the rudder was tightening and rolling the ski over as I made to the top. My momentum was transferred to the ski.

At this point I had been in the water for something like 5-8 minutes. Time was a hard thing for me to track and I don't actually know how long it was but it was beginning to feel like waaaay too long.

When untangling the rudder I also noticed, Hmm… This water is really cold. All this movement, remounting and swimming around was causing a lot of water exchange in my two piece neoprene set up. Both my top and bottom are tight fitting but there was still plenty of cold water making its way in.

The ski is now untangled and pointing in a less than optimal direction to remount. So I put the long leash idea to work and let the boat drift down wind so I could pull it back pointing the direction I wanted it to be pointing and that worked well. Nothing like seeing your ski drifting away out of reach even though it was leashed… That gave me my only moment of panic ( was it attached?) and I grabbed the line in the water early and pulled it back.

Now, untangled and lines straight i tried again to remount… Nope…. This time it was clear, I was getting cold, everything was much harder and i was feeling uncoordinated . I tried again… Nope. And again .. Nope. My last attempt was quite week and I wasn't sure if I would be able to do many more. So I pulled myself up on the ski and laid there for a minute pondering my options. Laying there looking at the conditions ( 2-3' and about 20 gusting to 25 or so… maybe) wondering, how did I get to this point in these conditions?.. I should not be in this position! Should I try again or was that a bad move? I was feeling pretty stunned at my predicament. I'm the conservative guy, the guy who doesn't push the limits and stays within his abilities… WTF?!

Now it was about 10 min or so since I fell in….. I think.

Fully realizing It was unlikely I was going to get back into the ski and that was it. I decided to use my radio and call the Coast guard earlier rather than later. I saw two boats motoring parallel with me heading south about 3/4 of a mile away and I hoped they could be contacted. Looking at my radio and channel 16 looking back at me, getting ready to push the button I felt terrible…. Boy did I fuck up.

"Mayday, mayday mayday, … I'm a kayaker in the water unable to get back into my boat and in need of assistance" . The CG responded within seconds loud and clear, and as everyone seems to say in this circumstance… It's a lovely sound.

They asked me my position and number of people involved. I told them just one person and that I was approximately two miles off the east shoreline and two miles south of Point Wells. I also asked if I should push the DSC distress button for my location. After a longish pause they asked me to confirm my location of 2 miles south of "Westpoint" and number of people involved. I corrected them by spelling Wells and asked again about the DSC…. I waited what seemed like a long time ( a minute ?) and they called back confirming it was just one person in the water and I was 2 miles south of Point Wells. I said yes that is correct and waited. After a few minuets I called the CG again and asked very clearly if I should push the [[:emergency_signal_devices#dsc|DSC]] button for my exact location and waited. About 30 seconds later they said go ahead and push it.

The radio shifted mode and made some loud tones, the screen changed and said it was sending my distress and my location. After about a minute It said it was successful and about a 30 seconds later the CG confirmed they received the information. A few minutes passed and the CG put out an all stations Pan pan, requesting vessel assistance in the vicinity of Point Wells to assist in the rescue of a kayaker out of his boat. This was repeated again in about 3 min. I watched the two boats that had gone buy me and were now about a mile away … They just kept going.

A few minutes after the second Pan Pan, a ship identified as "Hanjin bulk carrier" in the southbound shipping lane said it was changing course towards my location and readying a lifeboat. Holy shit! I realize it was that huge grain ship I could see heading south somewhere off Edmonds. This made me feel really bad for some reason. Soon after several other vessels radioed in they were heading my way but needs my location. The CG relayed my location as 2 miles south of Point Wells but nothing about how offshore I was. Some boat were chattering about me being off Westpoint and I called in again correcting that info. One boat asked the GC for my GPS coordinates and they gave it twice on request.

At this point it had been something like 20+ minutes since I hit the water.

At this time I was up on the ski with my torso out of the water. My legs and my elbows in the water on the other side. I was beginning to really feel cold and thought if I fell in the water it might be very hard to get back on the ski. Being semi out of the water was a lot warmer than in, but not exactly warm.

The ETA of the closest ( I think) boat was 20 minutes and they were coming from Shilshole. The Hanjin had crossed the shipping lanes and had turned towards me and they spotted me first ( I had been talking to the bridge directing him to my location). He started a tighter turn towards me and I didn't like the looks of it. With the rate of his turn and him being up wind I was worried about being rundown by a huge ship. He said he was readying a life boat. I called back and said since there were several vessels coming soon-ish and that i was ok at the moment, I suggested he stand watch and guide the other vessels in since he had eyes on me. I didn't hear back from him but that's what he did.

So now I just waited, i spoke with various vessels now and then about where I was and to check in. As the vessels were within a mile or so I started to guide the only one I could see too my location. I was having a hard time seeing any of the other boats as I was facing the wrong way ( looking north) and could only see the Hanjin over my to my left shoulder ( couldn't miss a 600' of ship!).

At about this time it was clear I was beginning to get hypothermic. I was starting to shiver and I was having a hard time deciding where I was relative too other boats that I could see. Deciding between 'northwest' and north-northwest' of your location was a hard thing to get clear in my head and verbalize . I was beginning to speak slower and having a hard time pronouncing words. I was clear and correct in my instructions but it was taking a lot of time and thought to say the right thing.

I had been trying to guide in the only boat that I could see thinking it was the boat I was talking too on the VHF ( not sure why I thought that in retrospect, I suspect wishful thinking and hypothermia) . The Hanjin who could see everything from way up in there in the ships bridge and realized i was not talking to the right boat. He asked the commercial fishing boat to his west to identify itself. It did and said it was looking for me but hadn't stated it was doing so on the radio. The CG immediately piped up and asked for the boats name. The Hanjin guided the fishing boat in to me and it was the first boat to get to me.

I was cold but still functional when the fishing boat (about a 60 foot long sainer) pulled up on my windward side. The deck crew was kinda frantic trying to rig something to get me out of the water and doing a lot of yelling at me all at the same time. One deckhand came over with a big throw bag, opened it up grabbing the wrong end and dumbed the entire contents on my head. I was instantly entangled in yards and yards of rope. There were people climbing over the side trying to grab my hand without a PFD on and it all began to freak me out. I didn't want anyone else in the water, I was ok we just needed a plan. I had too yell at them and tell them what I wanted to do. I just wanted a fixed line to hold on to while they get things ready. I'm not sure if they heard me or not. At this point the fishing boat started drifting downwind and on to me and it became very hard to stay on the ski as the boat pushed against me. I was facing the boat with my hands holding me off the hull. This caused my legs to go under the ski and I rolled off. Once off the ski I pulled seaming miles of throw bag line off me that was all tangled in. One end was connected to something onboard so I held on to that. They were still kinda frantic on board trying to rig something to get me up and over the 4 or so feet of freeboard. They mentioned another boat was here as well and it had a swim step so we waited for it to come around the my side. The pleasure boat ( a fast trawler) came to the leeward side of the fishing boat and when it was about 15' away i made sure there were no more line on me or the ski and shoved off from the fishing boat to the other boat. A little swimming and I was there in about 30 seconds. I unhooked my leashes and handed them my paddle. As I started to climb the ladder on the swim step two guys grabbed me and dragged me in the boat. The ladder would have been fine but I was just glad to be on board.

It is now something like 45 minutes after I hit the water maybe more.

I called the Hanjin and said thanks and to the fishing boat as well. The people on board the pleasure boat I was on strapped the ski to the back of the boat and headed for Shilshole. They were very professional on board checking me several times for hypothermia, asking my name and date several times over 10 min and reporting to the coastguard numerous times. We decided to keep my neoprene on and park me in from of a very toasty heater. They relaying my concerns about letting Jim and Dean knowing I was ok to the CG and we heard back soon that Jim and Dean were aware of my situation.. Reaching Shilshole fuel dock they drove me to my van and made sure I got in and had dry cloths…… They get an A+ and my deepest gratitude.

Soon after Dean showed up at the van and debriefed me and gave some good moral support.

Props to all who helped. The Hanjin who came looking in a HUGE ship and helped guide people in. The fishing boat, first there! and would have had me on board soon enough …and all others on there way. I saw at least two other boats that would have been there within 10 min.. And as always …. The Coast Guard, and they know what for.

Some thoughts on what worked…..

1..The radio! It worked very well and was easy to use and hear. While conditions were moderate at best, people could hear me well and I was in communication the whole time with various parties. Being able to direct them to my location most likely helped speed things up and was mentally calming for me to be engaged and informed on what was going on. I'm not sure what help the DSC was for me. Im surprised it took so long to get permission to use it, not that I need permission but I thought I would ask as I was in direct contact with the CG. It is suppose to broadcast my location to everyone with an enabled radio and even direct you there if you know how to use the function. Im unclear on who if any had an enabled radio. On second thought one of the people on the boat that picked me up had the same radio as I do on them.

2.. Leashes, Well one of them. My paddle leash was invaluable.\\
It would have been difficult untangling the rudder without being able to let my paddle go. It let me manage things without having to think about where the paddle was all the time. Dealing with the radio while draped over the ski and trying to stay on it is a two hand job, I just let the paddle go and it stayed with me. It was attached to my PFD and not the boat. It tangled in a few things but was quick and easy to deal with.

3…My neoprene cloths. While clearly not the warmest setup, I spent 45 or so minutes in the sound half in and out of the ski and about 10 of those in the water. I came away with mild hypothermia. Normally I wear a full suit but I sold it a week ago and bought another that is in the mail as I type. If it's cold ( like near freezing) I will use a drysuit. I just can't paddle in one when its 50° out without frying no matter how little I have on under….\\
So what I had worked to keep me from becoming seriously hypothermic. I suspect I had another 20 min before I was real trouble. For what it's worth I weight 180lbs.

4… Bright colors. The Hanjin captan said he wouldn't have seem me if I didn't have on that Think PFD. The boat that picked me up said they could see me a mile away with my day glow PFD and hat but didn't see the white ski ( I was draped over) until there were about 1/4 mile away ( that was from there fly bridge about 15 feet off the water ) . It just looked like another whitecap.

Things that didn't work.

1… Not taking Dean's advice with the 10 min head start. While it might not have made any difference, it would have been a smart way to start. If I had just express my concerns about where to turn and them getting on the same downwind path as me I might not be writing this… It's no magic bullet but it might have helped.

2… My remount. This one bothers me on many levels. Not sure what to do here. I paddled the V10 because I felt I would be fine but would have normally paddled my Stellar SR. I feel bullet proof in that boat and it's winter and the water in cold ( always Is I guess) and its a smart thing to be on…… Why didn't I? It has a damaged rudder post and I'm about to fix it among other things with the ski. Anyways I'm feeling good in the V10 these days, the conditions will be moderate and I have a solid remount…………………………………..hmmm.

3… Leash. The paddle leash was super…. really, it made everything so much easer and I can't stress that enough. The "Gorge special" ski leash.. Not so much. While it did allow for exactly what it was suppose to do ( orient my ski anyway I want it to be for a remount) it had some unintended consequences. This alone might be responsible for me not getting back in than anything. Those two extra head in swims and then spending all that time messing with the tangled leash and then turning the ski around took a lot of time and a lot out of me. This leash will be ditched or radically redesigned.

4… My neoprene cloths. While they did work quite well considering the thickness, this was only the case when i was holding still in the water or on the boat. Those first few minutes where I was moving around a lot had a lot had lots of water pumping threw the suit and robbing me of heat. So by the time I was all untangled and ready for my forth attempt, I was cold, slow and uncoordinated…. At that point the jig was up. This only took something like 5-8 or so minutes of constant immersion and moving around. So, two pice outfits suck in this case. A one piece suit like the 3/2 coming in about two days ..*sigh*… are several orders of magnitude warmer. I should be able to float around for 20 minutes totally submerged with hardly a chill.

5… Two things I forgot to bring. I "always" carry a dry bag with flares, real flares! I have two S.O.L.A.S. grade rocket flares and two S.O.L.A.S. grade hand held flares in the bag. I could have used them to get the attention of the passing boats…maybe. By the time I would have used them they had already passed. The bag also has a reflective bivy bag and fire starter… All this for anyone dumb enough to get themselves into a situation to need it………. I also usually carry a neoprene cap in my pocket that covers my head and ears and is for exactly this sort of situation. I suspect if I had it with me and had I put it on when I called the GC I wouldn't have been mildly hypothermic when I was pulled out. All these things were left in the car. Forgotten in the excited paddling banter while gearing up…. Not good.

6… Most importantly, my brain. Small things add up. Small things at the wrong time can immediately become big things.\\
I made a series of bad decisions, pick and chose where you like. Decisions and assumptions small on there own but they added up. In an unforgiving environment it ended with me being on a first name bases with the Coast Guard and causing a lot of people a lot of trouble looking for me.

Things I don't understand.

1… The [[:emergency_signal_devices#dsc|DSC]] thing did it help me? Don't get me wrong on the DSC, it clearly worked like a charm. The CG revived the info very quickly and the radio worked as advertised. I'm just not sure In the end it helped anybody actually get to me quicker. I could well be wrong. Maybe because I was talking people in to my location people didn't use it? A lot of questions I have now I wasn't really thinking about while shivering next to the heater…. It was more, how did this happen?

2… I'm unclear if the CG ever sent out a fast boat to find me or did they just rely on local vessels to assist. I never heard them say they were sending anything, boat or helicopter. I'm not saying they should have, just curious why or if they did.

3… Once I pressed the [[:emergency_signal_devices#dsc|DSC]] button on the VHS the screen went into a mode where I could no longer see the GPS coordinates. There might be a way to bring them back but I'm not sure. When one of the vessels asked for the coordinates I realized I couldn't give any if I had too. If someone doesn't have a DSC comparable radio but can here me on the radio, I have no way to tell them the coordinates. I might be wrong on that, I will look into it. When in the DSC mode I could still use the radio and continued to use ch16. I was never asked to change the cannel by the CG.

4… Seeing how long (short) being in the water took me to have issues remounting with what I was wearing is an eye opener. How do i dress for paddling in the sound in the summer? The water is almost the same temperature as winter. If I was dressed the same as this Saturday in August I would die of hyperthermia! With my normal summer NRS hydroskin top and shorts on I'd better get back on the first time! Zero margin for error……

5… And the most perplexing for me.. Why this happened!? I understand all the little things that added up. Still, even now I feel I wasn't in over my head and I have a good remount, but it failed when it shouldn't have, I was totally comfortable in the conditions, yet I swam. I'm always prepared for what might happen, yet I wasn't. Not being able to point at one or two thing and say yes, that's it, I need to fix that and I'm good makes me very uncomfortable. Clear answers are always preferred.

But for me the worst thing? I became the person I have spent my life in risk sports vowing not to become….that guy! And that, that really hurts.

I hope people can glean some useful info from my experience to make their paddling safer.

Bill Cirino\\
Seattle.

ps: I would like to hear what Jim and Dean's take is on event if they feel like sharing. What could have been different and what would have been useful too them, and useful when at the takeout when not knowing what had happened to me.

**zach** \\
12/08/14 #16616

Bill - I am glad you are ok. That is a terrifying story. Thanks for sharing. I learned a lot from reading it.

Honestly I think you did everything right. You had many levels of safety gear, and were confronted with an unanticipated gear failure when your leash kept tangling on the boat. Most importantly you had previously thought through what to do in such a situation, and swallowed your ego and called for help before you were in a death spiral.

I offer this NOT as a critique, but rather as an idea to take, leave, or modify as you see fit:

One thing to consider, especially in cold water, is checking in with each other frequently. This is the strategy my paddling partners and I have come to in the upper Midwest. Granted it's a bit different here, as there is no coast guard and very few boats even carrying a radio. Anyway, when we paddle a downwind, we are scanning visually every couple minutes for each other. If I get ahead and can't see the others with a quick turn of my head, I immediately turn around and paddle upwind until I find them. In a typical 2 hour downwind, I might paddle upwind 2 or 3 times. If I can't quickly find them quickly, I get on the radio (a channel other than 16 that we have previously agreed upon), and we all stop paddling and focus on getting back together. If I were to get into trouble like you did, I would radio my buddies and they would come help. It is not perfect, but I think it is necessary as we are our own rescue out here.

Sometimes, for training purposes, we want to paddle all out. When we do that, one of us will say ok guys, I am going to do one mile (or two miles, or whatever) all out. Then we know that person will be ahead a bit for 10 minutes or so. We know where they are. When the person doing the interval is done with their sprint, they turn around and start paddling upwind to the others.

Whenever I am in a different part of the world paddling, and people do a downwind, it feels antisocial and dangerous the way people just say goodbye at the put in and assume they will all get to the take out ok. I always feel like "Holy shit guys what is the safety plan?" But of course I know that is the standard the world over with very few bad outcomes. Also, a quick google search of my name will reveal that the buddy system can fail as well.

Anyway awesome job saving yourself. I think 95% or more of ski paddlers in the world are not as prepared as you were to handle such a situation. You did everything right. Again, I learned a lot about safety from reading your story. Thanks.

Zach Handler

**bill** \\
12/08/14 #16617

Thanks for replying Zach. I welcome all comments, observations, criticism, suggestions alike…. I have nothing but to learn from what happened and I'm hoping the grater community can help me with that, even if painful. A healthy discussion of such things is good for everyone's education and the sport.

Yes!… Paddling as a group is a good thing and something I had hoped for when starting with the sport several years ago. But Seattle is an odd place compared to say Bellingham. It can be hard to gather people for a downwind even with good weekend conditions. I spend the vast majority of my time paddling alone, both in flat water and in the sound.\\
My experience here in Seattle is more of then free for all type paddle with not much shepherding … That said, I turned down Deans offer for essentially something like that… Go figure. One paddle I was on where someone was shepherding most likely saved someone's life…. It does work. I read about the bellingham paddling community and marvel at its cohesiveness and sense of community and the ability to gather 4-5 paddlers seemingly at any time for a paddle. Seattle has some super paddlers and great people but it's not social or organized in any way. Considering its size surprisingly few ski paddlers as well….. Love you Seattle paddlers!… Just say'n.

I have always felt that ski like whitewater paddling you are in reality alone when something bad happens. It is entirely up to you to save yourself. Their might be little someone can do to help you if its bad out. Even using a VHF can be very tricky if the conditions are bad. I need to be able to rescue myself and have several levels of backup. First level is my ability to stay upright and be able to remount in conditions.. ie: not in over your head. I ether over estimated my abilities or small things worked against me ending in failure, maybe both. Backup signaling devises if one fails, I left my flares in my car =fail. So I was left with only one option, my radio. Down to one of three safety options is not a smart position to put your self in. If the radio didn't work I would have been SOL.\\
Bill

**Reivers Dustin** \\
12/08/14 #16618

Right on track here Bill. We all take mis-steps, the biggest point is to not repeat them. This is a perfect case study for VHF radio as the last defense. My experience was similar having trouble being understood. IMHO: cell phone would not play nearly as well in this situation.

In my ancient history is extensive training and practice in small unit operations. I've found that not very many others think my way (probably good). I can't stop myself from trying to identify everyone on the water and mentally tracking their condition and position. So I've found myself in shape to help sometimes and made another discovery: it's damn dicey to do rescue operations from a surfski. So we might have more confidence in a group, but it can also cause us to over-extend. And anyway, most of us do quite a bit of solo paddling.

Your leash experience is most important. I just can't seem to get settled on the best system. Two leashes scares me. I'm using leg leash, but haven't had any action events with it. The rescue events were all with just a paddle leash and it was wonderful to have. When that blown ski was coming at me at 20mph the paddle leash was the only way. I had to jump off and use both hands to make the catch (paddle between my legs).

Really great breakdowns from you and Michael L. these last few days. This is what I hope for from this group. Lets use our wits so that we can manage our risks. One of you bright ones will come up with a really slick leash system I'm certain.

**duncanhowat** \\
12/08/14 #16619

One other thought: In the winter, use on kinda big downwinders your 1" wider boat even though you know you can handle it it your 17"boat.( Ego out the window) If you don't have one, borrow one.I think the stern leash with the paddle leash is still the best system for big water. Just know that it can wrap around the rudder. Easy to undo, and then getting in with the boat pointed down wind is much easier than beam sea.Worked good in the Gorge and Hawaii. D

**saltspringken** \\
12/08/14 #16621

Bill,\\
Thanks for your thoughtful description of a scary event. This forum is invaluable for any of us that spend time on the water in tippy boats. Most of the surkski paddlers I know are bright, athletic and inclined to take calculated risks. I know from years as a blue water sailor that even with the most careful planning, when things go wrong, it happens fast and rarely the way you imagined it might. That said, thinking it through ahead of time saved my life on at least one occasion and probably this time for you. Little things that we might never consider will bite you in the ass when you least expect them too. I purchased a VHF with DSC last year (inspired by this group). In playing with it I realized the panic button cover would be almost impossible to lift up with a cold or gloved hand. I used a simple piece of cord and duct tape to make a "rip cord". These little things are so important to find out ahead of time and your account may save one of us from making a simple mistake that could have grave consequences. I rigged a leash similar to the one you described and considered it could catch on the Huki style rudder yoke but never thought of it catching on the rudder itself. Sharing these observations, however insignificant they may seem is a real service to everyone.\\
On the subject of leashes, I am still playing with different ideas and came across this one last year and used it for awhile.\\
[[http://tcsurfski.com/2013/09/23/surfski-leash/|http://tcsurfski.com/2013/09/23/surfski-leash/]]\\
I hate having lines that can snag me, dislike a calf leash and probably will never find a system that is perfect. Any other ideas would be appreciated. The last thing that comes to mind is having one of the great thinkers in the surfski world come up with a simple rescue device much like a paddle float that sea kayakers use. Seems like there should be something out there to aid a tired and unstable paddler get some help to regain stability and composure. Thanks again for sharing and glad you made it through ok!\\
Cheers,\\
Ken

**bill** \\
12/08/14 #16623

Thanks Ken..

You bring up some interesting points. I had though about the DSC button cover being kind of tight and wondered if I could easily open it with cold hands and gloves but did nothing about it. When actually using it it wasn't an issue, but I was wearing NRS hydroskin gloves and they are thin. If you push hard your nail sort of pokes threw. I don't even remember opening the flap so I will say it wasn't an issue. I suspect if i had on any thicker gloves i most likely would have needed to take one off… Not good. Your 'flap mod' is an excellent idea.

I agree about leashes, I think all the standard coil leashes are rubbish, flimsy and poorly made. Velcro has no place on a critical attachment point, especially around saltwater and sand. I have been working on a number of leash designs and testing them out now and then hoping to come up with something that works well… Believe me, the irony of a guy designing leashes and getting tripped up by his own leash is not wasted on me!

I still like the idea of a stern line leash and what it offers. But can I make one that won't tangle.

The leash I had on the boat is as follows.\\
A dyneema line attached to the stern handle terminating in a loop just before the bungees. I have a patch of industrial Velcro on the deck there and some Velcro attached to the dyneema line. It holds the loop in place at the bungee strongly and keeps the line tight to the deck. I wear a waste belt of 1" tubules webbing tied in a loop and wrapped around my wast and tied off with an overhand knot. On the loop end of the stern line I tie in a short leash of stretch tubing with a dyneema core and the other end to my wast belt with a snap shackle. It's simple, super strong, keeps my leash out of the footwell when paddling and allows you to move the boat around as desired….. It also gets wrapped around your rudder. This was a system I was just trying out and only really doing that practicing remounts.

This brings me to what happened…. I don't know why I didn't realize it was getting tangled. I looked at it to see if it was clear and sorted on my first remount attempt. On my second I did the same, but!.. I didn't pull on the line like I had done the first time. I just looked at it and saw it went into the water pointing at me and the line was attached to my belt.\\
On the third attempt I looked again and checked it better…. But for some reason I decided it was ok when clearly It was not! I was a bit confused about my two attempts at a remount and going head over on the second. I really didn't know what that was about and it rattled me a little. On the third I felt the tug when lunging and when I came up from another head first over the top dunk I could see a loop around the stern.

So, my checking to see it everything was clear was not good enough. I convinced myself it was fine when it wasn't and continued. I will NOT make that mistake again.

I also make longer leashes for in the foot well mount. Made of Dyneema, silicone tubing and a snap shackle. A 3 feet long one and stretches to 8 feet and doesn't tangle . The dyneema has a 2100lbs braking strength…. That should be enough!

At the moment I'm thinking about a fixed line on the back deck and a runner on it and messing with about with dyneema covered 3/16th bungee with 1400lbs braking strength….

I have been thinking about a stability assist system for some time as well. While I'm clearly! not one of the great minds of surfskiing, I do have a mind and sometimes use it. I will be thinking hard.

Bill

**Thomas Gilliard** \\
12/08/14 #16624

I use a K-1 Olympic Sprint Kayak with questionable stability even on a calm lake. My solution is to attach removable foam floats to each side of the kayak for training.\\
I wonder if a set of inflatable tubes on both sides of a surfski (with pressurized inflators) that could be triggered in an emergency should be developed.\\
A long thin tube along each side of the surfski that was flat until needed.\\
Attached permanently to the ski.\\
Similar in design to the self inflating life vests some paddlers use.

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard

**njcooksey@ymail.com** \\
12/08/14 #16625

The stern leash I got from Duncan's old v10 sport was made from a 1/4"\\
diameter surfboard leash with swivels. The surfboard cord floats, is quite\\
stiff and doesn't easily tangle around the stern and could never fit under\\
the rudder as could happen with thin cord. .I changed the belt to one I\\
copied from a Northwater kayak tow belt. 2" webbing with a cam buckle and\\
quick release toggle. Here's a link to the towbelt showing the buckle and\\
pull toggle\\
[[http://www.sherrikayaks.com/2010/03/01/choosing-a-tow-belt/|http://www.sherrikayaks.com/2010/03/01/choosing-a-tow-belt/]]

–\\
-Nick Cooksey

**saltspringken** \\
12/08/14 #16626

Years ago there was someone that sold sponsons that attached to the sides of a kayak to use instead of a paddle float. They were a bit cumbersome to attach but you could paddle with them in place. A more refined version of this could be a life saver.

If not now, when?

**allipp01** \\
12/08/14 #16627

I know that Zach Handler said that they had someone paddle with both feet out and still managed to average 3.5 mph.

I'm wondering if it's the sidesaddle remounting technique that's causing the problem? If you get in your boat, straddle it, try to get your feet in but end up flipping again, the answer would be pretty obvious to just keep your legs out for stability and paddle home (albeit slowly). Try doing that in the sidesaddle position and I see a big problem.

**Michael Gregory** \\
12/08/14 #16628

Umm, I know all you guys know this, right. Once one is in the bucket with both feet in the water, nice and stable, with paddle in hand . . . put one leg in the footwell, put opposite blade in the water, then other leg in, and off ya go. That's one leg at a time, right. Not both legs at once:) No problems.

**bill** \\
12/09/14 #16629

Yes, I understand this. I started doing it that way when I first started to paddle a Surfski and in retrospect should still. Since I have been having no issues swinging both legs in even in bumpy water that's what I tried to do and fell out in the process. That is what I meant about going on autopilot, I just did it how I had been practicing, except it didn't work. Had I had a second shot at remounting without being tangled I'm sure I would have went for one leg over the other side… I think. I never got to that point.

Bill

**Dennis Mowry** \\
12/09/14 #16631

Only last year I had my time in the spot light. I'm very happy with the progress I've made. I struggled with stability most of the early summer. Only practiced remounts in flat water. I believe going to the Gorge in a fat boat made a big difference. Being in rougher water and not worrying about it so much.

Clint's workshop also was a big leap.

I just returned from Maui, with more confidence. Being in rough warm water, dumping and having to get back in. We also surfed the harbor where I dumped plenty, had plenty of practice. I'm begining to realise it's not as a big deal as I thought. I would recommend the trip to everyone, especially when its 20 degrees blowing NE 25, it's 80 in the water. Colder water diffently has a high risk, more reason to take the trip?

I like the side saddle remount. I would sit on one side as long as I needed to get organized then put one foot in, ready, then the other then go. I was watching someone else try and drape legs on both sides but the boat gets centered on the "V" rather than the flat side, he would tip before he could get organized. I'm not really giving advice as an expert. Maybe both legs over for stable paddling.

As far as the leashes, inspecting them throughly before remount could of saved two dumps. I spend a fair amount of time untangling the leash from my legs and they can also wrap around the boat. Get tangled with a paddle leash. The sliding leash on a runner line betwen the stern and the rear of the seat seems like a good idea. Allowing to get to the rudder without unleashing. There is less slack to get tangled, still need to undo the waist sometimes.

Attaching the leash to the foot strap??? My foot strap broke while in Hawaii, the leash would of came right off. I realized I shouldn't stress the leash as much when going over? The stress would go to the leash. Another guy broke two leashes. I was amazed how naked I felt not using the foot strap.

I really appreciate the opportunities to learn from each other. Even in life threatening experiences.

Dennis

**Tom Swetish** \\
12/10/14 #16633

As long as we're all sharing war stories…

A few of us did the lake whatcom run yesterday morning. I broke a rudder line about a mile in. The back-deck bungee system worked amazingly well. For anyone unfamiliar with it, just a short piece of bungee attached about a foot in front of your tiller on your deck. Attach it to whatever side fails and you're back in business. Anyone know who invented it? Sterling? Jude? I was glad it happened on Whatcom as I was able to limp to shore and make the repair on land. The bay would have been a bit more interesting.

Huge thanks to Pete and Mike for hanging with me while I got going again.

Good discussion and re-caps here. Happy that they are all told in the first person.

-Tom

**Tim Niemier** \\
12/10/14 #16635

Just a thought on surfing in high wind and wave situations. I really like doing this but found that the stretch of water between Larrabee Park and Fairhaven can have nice waves that are short and steep. The Scupper Pro with a rudder would get up and plane which would make it really fun to do gentle cutbacks or move laterally from wave to wave. It seemed to "fit" the frequency of short steep waves well in that stretch of water. This sort of hull design is very stable yet fun even though it is a heavy roto molded dive kayak. I have done this with my old V10 and it worked but the experience was different and less stable. I could never expect to plane with the Scupper Pro on flat water but with a little push it really flies. I have also used this hull design on 15+ wave faces at Steamer's lane in Santa Cruz and surfed all the way into the beach at the pier which is probably something I wouldn't do with a V10.

Do we need yet more boat or boats to add to our quiver?

Tim Niemier

**Michael Gregory** \\
12/10/14 #16637

Hi Tim, you might check out the new Epic V7. It is a roto-moulded 42 lb surfski, somewhat similar in design to the V8. Has a rear hatch and storage area. Might be just the ticket. MG
Surfski Knowledge Base

User Tools

Site Tools

Page Tools
