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--- races:mayor_cup_2008 [2020/03/28 05:10]
preavley
+++ races:mayor_cup_2008 [2025/03/23 22:09] (current)
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 /19/08 #5191
-Some of you have been following the race on Surfski.info and watching\\
+Some of you have been following the race on Surfski.info and watching the GPS live track of racers. So you already know that the race was aborted one hour in. They have some good video on Surfski.info It seems some boats were swept under a barge near the start along with many more having trouble with the choppy conditions.
-the GPS live track of racers. So you already know that the race was\\
-aborted one hour in. They have some good video on Surfski.info It\\
-seems some boats were swept under a barge near the start along with\\
-many more having trouble with the choppy conditions.
-Larry B. just called to talk about it. The only english that I could\\
+Larry B. just called to talk about it. The only english that I could pick out was, "CHRIST!" It seems the lead pack was near the turn around into the good conditions. The ride back to start was not so bad. But the start was nasty. You are immediately in "wall" conditions and most racers didn't focus on the barge they were getting swept into by the current. No one was hurt and most gear has been recovered. The boats that were sucked under the barge have some\\
-pick out was, "CHRIST!" It seems the lead pack was near the turn\\
-around into the good conditions. The ride back to start was not so\\
-bad. But the start was nasty. You are immediately in "wall"\\
-conditions and most racers didn't focus on the barge they were\\
-getting swept into by the current. No one was hurt and most gear has\\
-been recovered. The boats that were sucked under the barge have some\\
 damage.
-The Aussies and South Africans can hardly believe it. But everyone\\
+The Aussies and South Africans can hardly believe it. But everyone is off the water under orders from the N.Y. authorities. LB and Mike G. are swapping lies as I write this, so we'll probably never know the whole truth. At least until we get them drunk. Maybe Bob P. or Ian or one of the Eric's will come forward.
-is off the water under orders from the N.Y. authorities. LB and Mike\\
-G. are swapping lies as I write this, so we'll probably never know\\
-the whole truth. At least until we get them drunk. Maybe Bob P. or\\
-Ian or one of the Eric's will come forward.
 This is 'news of the day' for the paddle racing crowd.
@@ Line 104: / Line 90: @@
 Anybody else note this nonsense?
-"…many racing sleek, lightweight kayaks known as surf skis. The\\
+"…many racing sleek, lightweight kayaks known as surf skis. The narrow vessels are designed to travel extremely fast atop flat water. They are popular in areas with warm water, like California and Hawaii."
-narrow vessels are designed to travel extremely fast atop flat water.\\
-They are popular in areas with warm water, like California and\\
-Hawaii."
 This might help a little?\\
@@ Line 117: / Line 100: @@
 /21/08 #5206
-I found this article on the Yahoo Surfski site written by a guy from\\
+I found this article on the Yahoo Surfski site written by a guy from the East coast named Cliff Roach. It's worth a few minutes of your time…..\\
-the East coast named Cliff Roach. It's worth a few minutes of your\\
-time…..\\
 [surfski] Mayors Cup and testosterone poisoningTuesday, October 21,\\
 6:35 PM\\
 From: "Cliff Roach" <flyingriverdog@…>Add sender to\\
-Contacts To: surfski@… am a new surfskier with a\\
+Contacts To: surfski@… am a new surfskier with a fairly steep learning curve currently.
-fairly steep learning curve currently.\\
-Last year I did Mayors Cup in a V10 Sport, and though I never swam, I\\
+Last year I did Mayors Cup in a V10 Sport, and though I never swam, I called out secretly for my mommy from Hells Gate to the finish line. I was hooked though. I bought a V10 within weeks, and a S1X this summer in a "how can you say no" deal. Being two hours from the ocean, it was not convenient, but I managed to get a half dozen long open water paddles in, including the Mayors cup course itself.
-called out secretly for my mommy from Hells Gate to the finish line.\\
-I was hooked though. I bought a V10 within weeks, and a S1X this\\
+So when I arrived at Mayors Cup last Sunday, I felt infinitely more confident despite paddling a more tippy boat (S1X). That is, until I saw the hudson. I do remember looking out there and seeing something new, but felt I had lots of outs, including a dynamite remount (Lots of real world training there). In addition, I looked around and saw some 40 other skis, many of which were a lot more to handle than the S1X, and the pack mentality gel packed in my brain, "if they all can do it, so can I" (testosterone poisoning). That optimism was shattered when we lined up for departure. I saw a sight that stopped me dead. There was Oscar Chalupski right in front of me. When I saw that the great and mighty "O" was wearing a PFD, bubbles arose from the bucket beneath me. Here I am, a newby from landlocked Philadelphia strutting proudly with my pfd duct taped to the stern. It was like the click of the safety rail on a giant rollercoast sounding off.
-summer in a "how can you say no" deal. Being two hours from the\\
-ocean, it was not convenient, but I managed to get a half dozen long\\
+And then the countdown started. Oh crap, here we go! Out of the gate in the middle of the pack, the bottleneck was impressive. I remember someone closing in on my left and even hitting my paddle. The boat in my front right was tracking left in front of me. I remember thinking, "if he would just track a little right, there would be plenty of room". Now, I understand, he probably was aware of the barge, that so many discounted as a nuisance. I just backed off, and patiently waited for room to pass on the right, which I eventually did. I remember being aware of people swimming somewhere in that mayham, but never gave a second thought about their safety: just remount, or swim back to the dock. Right? I actually thought it was kinda funny, and something I am all too familiar with this summer. Only upon return did I find out how not funny that was. Within 100 feet of the placid cove now, I caught my first of many wet washes in the face. And, the taste of salt confirmed the tide status.
-open water paddles in, including the Mayors cup course itself. So\\
-when I arrived at Mayors Cup last Sunday, I felt infinately more\\
+Turning upriver, I got my first full contact wave break to the shoulders within 500 feet. The race was on. Yes it was rough, but the waves were straight on. A routine of cresting and crashing insued. After a few minutes, I was deleriously happy as I began to realize that all that practice was paying off, and I felt stable. I decided to wear a polypropelene shirt with long wet pants. Many of us labored over what to wear, and agreed that any thermal comfort going up the hudson would be cursed once inside the sheltered Harlem. I was just right, and feeling good. At one point the nose was airborn up to my butt, when a gust caught the nose from the side and turned me quite authoritatively setting me up to crash into the next wave at an angle. To my astonishment, I survived. Hmmm, "Never done that before". The waves seemed to be in series with occasional lulls where I could dig in. But many times all forward motion would was lost as you slapped off a crest and pitched squarely into the heart of the next wave. The entire paddling field would appear and disapear in front of you with the whims of the waves.
-confident despite paddling a more tippy boat (S1X). That is, until I\\
-saw the hudson. I do remember looking out there and seeing something\\
+The entire paddle up to the GW bridge, I did not look at my GPS, or take a single sip from my tube for fear of swimming. I could not afford anything less than 100% attention, but it was working, and I was moving. I waited for the longest time to find a lull long enough to even pull my drinking tube which had worked its way under my leg. I think I was about mid pack, in the thick of the channel, and nearing the GW bridge when I saw the first skis coming downstream. They were thoughtful enough to just paddle right by without a word. I assumed the two had some kind of damage, or issue that made them give up. Then there were more, and some of them were stopping to talk to other paddlers, who then stopped too. When I got the news I was stunned. After training for two months, it was all over in the blink of an eye. I had a hard time understanding why we were turned back into the open rage of the Hudson, when the tranquil Harlem was within view. I thought of continuing anyway, but found out that the police boats blocked the entrance. I was again stunned to find that they stopped the elites too. I invested in a two hour drive to get there, but imagined what it would be like to invest in a 16 hour flight from South Africa to be turned back for conditions that you find "fun". Oh well, should be able to scream down these faces on the way back.
-new, but felt I had lots of outs, including a dynamite remount (Lots\\
-of real world training there). In addition, I looked around and saw\\
+I turned tail and caught my first good run, and the nose parked itself into the back of the proceding wave. The paddling stopped, the sound and feel of spray began and steadily increased. I was on it and flying. When I looked down at the GPS I was in disbelief, only 5 to 6 mph. Wow, the current was really ripping against us on the return. Downwind runs are still challenging for this newby, and on my second swim a police boat swung by to ask if I was alright. With a thumbs up, I remounted and headed off again leaving them looking confused. Within moments, I came upon a senior paddler in a sea kayak that was waving his hands to another police boat in surrender. He looked exhausted and possibly in medical trouble. As the boat manuevered, and grabbed for his bow, the unthinkable happened, he capsized. He did not roll. He did not wet exit. He did not appear to even be struggling as the seconds ticked louder. I remember the policeman on the boat with his blue jumpsuit, boots, radio and gun, as he uncontrollably murmered "oh no" out loud. We were both equal distance to the paddler, but I knew it would make more sense for the "already wet and crazy guy" to get him. They were stamering to decide their next move when I jumped in, leaving my ski and paddle bouncing in the soup. I reached under and grabbed his head and held it above the water, and swam him to the boat. He was understandably shaken, but fine, and I looked for the "OK" to jump back in and rescue my gear. But, the police asked where my PFD was. I pointed to the boat, and he scratched his head with NYPD disgust. "How will you get to it" he asked? This truly confused me. With a shrug of the shoulders I simply said "swim". He struggled to believe that I was of sound mind and body, as we talked of kayak and paddle prices, swimming abilities, hyperthermia and other fun topics.
-some 40 other skis, many of which were a lot more to handle than the\\
-S1X, and the pack mentality gel packed in my brain, "if they all can\\
+Eventually we came to terms. I smiled and he shook his head to hide his and tried to hide his "I know I am going to pay for this" grin. Then I made a beatiful swan dive into the Hudson off the back of a police boat. Looking back, he probably never saw anyone intentionally dive into the Hudson. God knows I haven't. Kudos to Ray and all the support staff. I know at least one kayaker that should be happy that police boats were there. I can't explain it, but I was suddenly aware that this day was going to be so much more memorable than if it was completed. Paddling back leisurely, taking in the sights, chatting with other paddlers, and all this as the water seemed to suddenly calm. The Gas was all out of the water by the time we returned to the cove, and it would best be described as typical harbor slop as I slid in. Gps showed 19.2 miles, and the rest of the day was spent hearing all the different angles of the events. It was a great day, and I hope we can do it all again next year.
-do it, so can I" (testosterone poisoning). That optimism was\\
-shattered when we lined up for departure. I saw a sight that stopped\\
-me dead. There was Oscar Chalupski right in front of me. When I saw\\
-that the great and mighty "O" was wearing a PFD, bubbles arose from\\
-the bucket beneath me. Here I am, a newby from landlocked\\
-Philadelphia strutting proudly with my pfd duct taped to the stern.\\
-It was like the click of the safety rail on a giant rollercoast\\
-sounding off. And then the countdown started. Oh crap, here we go!\\
-Out of the gate in the middle of the pack, the bottleneck was\\
-impressive. I remember someone closing in on my left and even hitting\\
-my paddle. The boat in my front right was tracking left in front of\\
-me. I remember thinking, "if he would just track a little right,\\
-there would be plenty of room". Now, I understand, he probably was\\
-aware of the barge, that so many discounted as a nuisance. I just\\
-backed off, and patiently waited for room to pass on the right, which\\
-I eventually did. I remember being aware of people swimming somewhere\\
-in that mayham, but never gave a second thought about their safety:\\
-just remount, or swim back to the dock. Right? I actually thought it\\
-was kinda funny, and something I am all too familiar with this\\
-summer. Only upon return did I find out how not funny that was.\\
-Within 100 feet of the placid cove now, I caught my first of many wet\\
-washes in the face. And, the taste of salt confirmed the tide status.\\
-Turning upriver, I got my first full contact wave break to the\\
-shoulders within 500 feet. The race was on. Yes it was rough, but the\\
-waves were straight on. A routine of cresting and crashing insued.\\
-After a few minutes, I was deleriously happy as I began to realize\\
-that all that practice was paying off, and I felt stable. I decided\\
-to wear a polypropelene shirt with long wet pants. Many of us labored\\
-over what to wear, and agreed that any thermal comfort going up the\\
-hudson would be cursed once inside the sheltered Harlem. I was just\\
-right, and feeling good. At one point the nose was airborn up to my\\
-butt, when a gust caught the nose from the side and turned me quite\\
-authoritatively setting me up to crash into the next wave at an\\
-angle. To my astonishment, I survived. Hmmm, "Never done that\\
-before". The waves seemed to be in series with occasional lulls where\\
-I could dig in. But many times all forward motion would was lost as\\
-you slapped off a crest and pitched squarely into the heart of the\\
-next wave. The entire paddling field would appear and disapear in\\
-front of you with the whims of the waves. The entire paddle up to the\\
-GW bridge, I did not look at my GPS, or take a single sip from my\\
-tube for fear of swimming. I could not afford anything less than 100%\\
-attention, but it was working, and I was moving. I waited for the\\
-longest time to find a lull long enough to even pull my drinking tube\\
-which had worked its way under my leg. I think I was about mid pack,\\
-in the thick of the channel, and nearing the GW bridge when I saw the\\
-first skis coming downstream. They were thoughtful enough to just\\
-paddle right by without a word. I assumed the two had some kind of\\
-damage, or issue that made them give up. Then there were more, and\\
-some of them were stopping to talk to other paddlers, who then\\
-stopped too. When I got the news I was stunned. After training for\\
-two months, it was all over in the blink of an eye. I had a hard time\\
-understanding why we were turned back into the open rage of the\\
-Hudson, when the tranquil Harlem was within view. I thought of\\
-continuing anyway, but found out that the police boats blocked the\\
-entrance. I was again stunned to find that they stopped the elites\\
-too. I invested in a two hour drive to get there, but imagined what\\
-it would be like to invest in a 16 hour flight from South Africa to\\
-be turned back for conditions that you find "fun". Oh well, should\\
-be able to scream down these faces on the way back. I turned tail and\\
-caught my first good run, and the nose parked itself into the back of\\
-the proceding wave. The paddling stopped, the sound and feel of spray\\
-began and steadily increased. I was on it and flying. When I looked\\
-down at the GPS I was in disbelief, only 5 to 6 mph. Wow, the current\\
-was really ripping against us on the return. Downwind runs are still\\
-challenging for this newby, and on my second swim a police boat swung\\
-by to ask if I was alright. With a thumbs up, I remounted and headed\\
-off again leaving them looking confused. Within moments, I came upon\\
-a senior paddler in a sea kayak that was waving his hands to another\\
-police boat in surrender. He looked exhausted and possibly in medical\\
-trouble. As the boat manuevered, and grabbed for his bow, the\\
-unthinkable happened, he capsized. He did not roll. He did not wet\\
-exit. He did not appear to even be struggling as the seconds ticked\\
-louder. I remember the policeman on the boat with his blue jumpsuit,\\
-boots, radio and gun, as he uncontrollably murmered "oh no" out loud.\\
-We were both equal distance to the paddler, but I knew it would make\\
-more sense for the "already wet and crazy guy" to get him. They were\\
-stamering to decide their next move when I jumped in, leaving my ski\\
-and paddle bouncing in the soup. I reached under and grabbed his head\\
-and held it above the water, and swam him to the boat. He was\\
-understandably shaken, but fine, and I looked for the "OK" to jump\\
-back in and rescue my gear. But, the police asked where my PFD was. I\\
-pointed to the boat, and he scratched his head with NYPD\\
-discust. "How will you get to it" he asked? This truly confused me.\\
-With a shrug of the shoulders I simply said "swim". He struggled to\\
-beleve that I was of sound mind and body, as we talked of kayak and\\
-paddle prices, swimming abilities, hyperthermia and other fun topics.\\
-Eventually we came to terms. I smiled and he shook his head to hide\\
-his and tried to hide his "I know I am going to pay for this" grin.\\
-Then I made a beatiful swan dive into the Hudson off the back of a\\
-police boat. Looking back, he probably never saw anyone intentionally\\
-dive into the Hudson. God knows I havn't. Kudos to Ray and all the\\
-support staff. I know at least one kayaker that should be happy that\\
-police boats were there. I can't explain it, but I was suddenly aware\\
-that this day was going to be so much more memorable than if it was\\
-completed. Paddling back leisurely, taking in the sights, chatting\\
-with other paddlers, and all this as the water seemed to suddenly\\
-calm. The Gas was all out of the water by the time we returned to the\\
-cove, and it would best be described as typical harbor slop as I slid\\
-in. Gps showed 19.2 miles, and the rest of the day was spent hearing\\
-all the different angles of the events. It was a great day, and I\\
-hope we can do it all again next year.
 \\
@@ Line 245: / Line 125: @@
 /21/08 #5207
-I finally found a computer. I found Mike G on the way back, on shore\\
+I finally found a computer. I found Mike G on the way back, on shore after the CG ordered us off the water. Later we finished paddling back. Erik had the 1-1/2 kt current, 20 mph opposing wind, and 3-5' right, but failed to mention "WASHING MACHINE"! I have yet to learn how to paddle in that stuff.
-after the CG ordered us off the water. Later we finished paddling\\
-back. Erik had the 1-1/2 kt current, 20 mph opposing wind, and 3-5'\\
+After deciding to start last to miss the pack (a good decision), I still managed to miss the pile-up by only 4 ft. 10 minutes into the race I was pivoting on top of a wave, got hit by a 25mph gust and broached. I spent another 5 minutes trying to get turned back into the wind. Half way across the river to New Jersy, I threw my legs over trying to get the boat to turn. In a uniform set, when I put my legs in, the feet wouldn't go under the foot straps. Finally had to do it by hand. The really bad stuff was over after 1/2 hour, but by then, I had spent too much energy and was getting tired. After 1-1/2 hour of paddling by myself, I was running into people going the other way, which was really confusing.
-right, but failed to mention "WASHING MACHINE"! I have yet to learn\\
-how to paddle in that stuff. After deciding to start last to miss the\\
-pack (a good decision), I still managed to miss the pile-up by only 4\\
-ft. 10 minutes into the race I was pivoting on top of a wave, got hit\\
-by a 25mph gust and broached. I spent another 5 minutes trying to get\\
-turned back into the wind. Half way across the river to New Jersy, I\\
-threw my legs over trying to get the boat to turn. In a uniform set,\\
-when I put my legs in, the feet wouldn't go under the foot straps.\\
-Finally had to do it by hand. The really bad stuff was over after 1/2\\
-hour, but by then, I had spent too much energy and was getting tired.\\
-After 1-1/2 hour of paddling by myself, I was running into people\\
-going the other way, which was really confusing.
-I wonder when the United States can put on a surfski race in waves?\\
+I wonder when the United States can put on a surfski race in waves? Some would think that a surfski race has to be in a washing machine in order to be called tough. Perhaps it could also be fun. I mean how do you practice for this stuff in the NW where you risk 50F water and hypothermia. I might stick to Hawaii.
-Some would think that a surfski race has to be in a washing machine in\\
-order to be called tough. Perhaps it could also be fun. I mean how\\
-do you practice for this stuff in the NW where you risk 50F water and\\
-hypothermia. I might stick to Hawaii.
 \\
@@ Line 307: / Line 171: @@
 /22/08 #5213
-I read that and was appalled ! What I like about the USSSC is that\\
+I read that and was appalled ! What I like about the USSSC is that last year I was told the safety crew consisted of experienced surfski paddlers and they knew what to look for if a paddler was in trouble. They just need education about the sport. I am sure it was a learning experience for all and next year will be much better.
-last year I was told the safety crew consisted of experienced surfski\\
-paddlers and they knew what to look for if a paddler was in trouble.\\
-They just need education about the sport. I am sure it was a learning\\
-experience for all and next year will be much better.
 Kathleen
@@ Line 320: / Line 180: @@
 /22/08 #5214
-Actually, Joe Glickman reports that it was the NY Harbor police, not the USCG, who shut it\\
+Actually, Joe Glickman reports that it was the NY Harbor police, not the USCG, who shut it down.
-down.
 \\
 **NY Mayors Cup\\
-Larry Bussinger <lbussing@...>** \\
+Larry Bussinger <lbussing@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5227
+/24/08 #5227
-I posted some pictures to three albums.  (They only take 5 pictures\\
+I posted some pictures to three albums. (They only take 5 pictures each) There is a good one of the notorious barge with three boats under it and one paddler on deck.
-each)  There is a good one of the notorious barge with three boats\\
-under it and one paddler on deck.
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
 Erik Borgnes** \\
-/24/08  #5229
+/24/08 #5229
 I pulled a really bonehead maneuver at the mayor's Cup race, though this might be debatable.
-My mistake this year was to leave my leash at home when I went to NYC - odd because I'm kind of hyper about a boat to body leash.  But, I pictured flat water like last year's race and reasoned that my chances of drowning in 65 F water from losing my ski and not being able to swim to shore while wearing my pfd were LESS than getting run over by a ferry or barge because I was tied to the ski - a la MG, but being chummed up under a much bigger boat.  And, last year I capsized not 2 miles from the start (two of us collided while going for a wave), in the middle of the Hudson.  With minimal wind, holding onto the ski and getting back on was not difficult to do.
+My mistake this year was to leave my leash at home when I went to NYC - odd because I'm kind of hyper about a boat to body leash. But, I pictured flat water like last year's race and reasoned that my chances of drowning in 65 F water from losing my ski and not being able to swim to shore while wearing my pfd were LESS than getting run over by a ferry or barge because I was tied to the ski - a la MG, but being chummed up under a much bigger boat. And, last year I capsized not 2 miles from the start (two of us collided while going for a wave), in the middle of the Hudson. With minimal wind, holding onto the ski and getting back on was not difficult to do.
-But, this year, while I was way out in the middle of the Hudson in those big waves, I really wished that I was wearing a knee leash.  The lightbulb realization was that the wind was going south while the current was going north - which is a recipe for instantly being separated from your ski.  A Capsize there would instantly have pulled me apart from my ski or would have made reentry very difficult and the ski difficult to hold on to.  So a capsize out there meant a swim, no question about it.  And, with lots of others on the course, and with my pfd on, getting to shore in that warm water didn't worry me so much.
+But, this year, while I was way out in the middle of the Hudson in those big waves, I really wished that I was wearing a knee leash. The lightbulb realization was that the wind was going south while the current was going north - which is a recipe for instantly being separated from your ski. A Capsize there would instantly have pulled me apart from my ski or would have made reentry very difficult and the ski difficult to hold on to. So a capsize out there meant a swim, no question about it. And, with lots of others on the course, and with my pfd on, getting to shore in that warm water didn't worry me so much.
-On the remainder of the course, assuming it was with the wind and with the current and on a narrower river, I'm not sure if I would have wanted a knee to ski leash.  Maybe a paddle to ski leash would have been best in the specific circumstances of the Mayors Cup race?  Or a knee leash on the Hudson that's got a quick release for the second half of the course?
+On the remainder of the course, assuming it was with the wind and with the current and on a narrower river, I'm not sure if I would have wanted a knee to ski leash. Maybe a paddle to ski leash would have been best in the specific circumstances of the Mayors Cup race? Or a knee leash on the Hudson that's got a quick release for the second half of the course?
-I wonder if any of the paddlers that got drawn underneath the barge had leashes on and whether they would have been a help or a hindrance?  My guess is that wearing a pfd would have helped them but wearing a leash might have made matters worse?
+I wonder if any of the paddlers that got drawn underneath the barge had leashes on and whether they would have been a help or a hindrance? My guess is that wearing a pfd would have helped them but wearing a leash might have made matters worse?
 How many paddlers were wearing leashes that day?
@@ Line 353: / Line 210: @@
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
-mike Gregory <falloff999@...>** \\
+mike Gregory <falloff999@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5230
+/24/08 #5230
 Yo Bonehead,\\
-Not sure if there is truly a right answer about what leash works best.  However, I can tell you this:\\
+Not sure if there is truly a right answer about what leash works best. However, I can tell you this:\\
 -There have been circumstances in which I would have been toast if I were using a leg leash.\\
 -There has only been one time that I've been thrown so violently from my ski that I lost my grasp while using a Paddle Leash.\\
--Many manufactured leashes will break in very strong wind.  Take time to inspect your leash and satisfy yourself it will not part in an untimely fashion.\\
+-Many manufactured leashes will break in very strong wind. Take time to inspect your leash and satisfy yourself it will not part in an untimely fashion.\\
--Anybody can huli and lose their ski  - - ANYBODY!  No matter their skill level.\\
+-Anybody can huli and lose their ski - - ANYBODY! No matter their skill level.\\
 -So, cover your bases before venturing out on the briny; what's your fitness level, is your remount automatic, anticipate what the weather may do, let someone know your plan, paddle with a buddy.\\
 -Respect your watery environment.\\
@@ Line 369: / Line 226: @@
 **Re: leashes\\
 lori & beau whitehead** \\
-/24/08  #5231
+/24/08 #5231
-I'm pretty sure surfers have been using leashes for an eternity,  getting slammed by 30 foot waves exerting pressures of hundreds of PSI.  They don't break that often, I've never broken one.\\
+I'm pretty sure surfers have been using leashes for an eternity, getting slammed by 30 foot waves exerting pressures of hundreds of PSI. They don't break that often, I've never broken one. Are kayak leashes made out of yarn or something?
-Are kayak leashes made out of yarn or something?
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
-LeAnne Robinson <leanne.robinson@...>** \\
+LeAnne Robinson <leanne.robinson@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5232
+/24/08 #5232
 As a "not so muscle-bound female" I want to say that I have had a leash snap (watch out for the cheaper traditional sea-kayaking leashes that are generally used for paddle to boat). The leash was body to boat. I have since switched to a Huki leash, which does not have plastic parts.
@@ Line 390: / Line 246: @@
 **Re: leashes\\
 Erik Borgnes** \\
-/24/08  #5233
+/24/08 #5233
-Yarn, Ha!  I think the difference is that board leashes are attached to the back of the board where there is much less pull, whereas ski leashes are attached amidships where there is a huge pull on the ski.  Someone needs to come up with a simple system of attaching one to the bow that can slide back to the middle of the ski.  A line on a line sort of thing.
+Yarn, Ha! I think the difference is that board leashes are attached to the back of the board where there is much less pull, whereas ski leashes are attached amidships where there is a huge pull on the ski. Someone needs to come up with a simple system of attaching one to the bow that can slide back to the middle of the ski. A line on a line sort of thing.
 Erik
@@ Line 398: / Line 254: @@
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
-mike Gregory <falloff999@...>** \\
+mike Gregory <falloff999@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5234
+/24/08 #5234
-Yo Bo, yer surfboard is not 20ft long nor does it weigh 25-30lbs.  So, a surfski is kinda like a sail or a kite in big winds - offers a lot of wind resistance . . . . yep, all that force generated by that strong wind blowing on that long ski really tugs hard on that leash, surfskiers get this.  Check it out - when a ski blows away it tumbles at right angles to the wind and the more it blows the faster it goes.  If it's blowing more than 15-20 kts and your ski gets away there is no way you'll be able to swim and get it back.  Think about it.  If ya have any doubts come out with us come the next big blow.  I'm certain sure that we can arrange a little controlled demonstration that is guaranteed to impress.\\
+Yo Bo, yer surfboard is not 20ft long nor does it weigh 25-30lbs. So, a surfski is kinda like a sail or a kite in big winds - offers a lot of wind resistance . . . . yep, all that force generated by that strong wind blowing on that long ski really tugs hard on that leash, surfskiers get this. Check it out - when a ski blows away it tumbles at right angles to the wind and the more it blows the faster it goes. If it's blowing more than 15-20 kts and your ski gets away there is no way you'll be able to swim and get it back. Think about it. If ya have any doubts come out with us come the next big blow. I'm certain sure that we can arrange a little controlled demonstration that is guaranteed to impress.\\
 Mike.
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
-mike Gregory <falloff999@...>** \\
+mike Gregory <falloff999@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5235
+/24/08 #5235
-Easily done.  Big water sailors have used such systems for a long time - stout lines that run fore and aft from the cockpit, a leash from a body harness with a snap-shackle that clips on and slides along with ya, as ya work the deck.  Elegant in it's simplicity and effective in it's function!
+Easily done. Big water sailors have used such systems for a long time - stout lines that run fore and aft from the cockpit, a leash from a body harness with a snap-shackle that clips on and slides along with ya, as ya work the deck. Elegant in it's simplicity and effective in it's function!
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
 lori & beau whitehead** \\
-/24/08  #5236
+/24/08 #5236
-Easy tiger... I have no doubt you are right.  My point was that if 'skiers are breaking leashes that often, it might be time to design a better leash.\\
+Easy tiger… I have no doubt you are right. My point was that if 'skiers are breaking leashes that often, it might be time to design a better leash.
-By the way, my paddle board does weigh 28 lbs but is only 14 feet long and does not have near the wind catching profile of a ski.  Even with a low profile,  it flies away from me if I am unleashed and fall in the wind.\\
+By the way, my paddle board does weigh 28 lbs but is only 14 feet long and does not have near the wind catching profile of a ski. Even with a low profile, it flies away from me if I am unleashed and fall in the wind.\\
 BW
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
-mike Gregory <falloff999@...>** \\
+mike Gregory <falloff999@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5237
+/24/08 #5237
-BTW . . . I was not using a leash that day and I didn't have a PFD either.  Were I to have been using such devices . . .  never mind.
+BTW . . . I was not using a leash that day and I didn't have a PFD either. Were I to have been using such devices . . . never mind.
 \\
 **Re: leashes\\
 Reivers Dustin** \\
-/24/08  #5240
+/24/08 #5240
-A proper leash would be the next to the last in your ring of safety.\\
+A proper leash would be the next to the last in your ring of safety. That's viewing safety in layers, where the last ring of defense would perhaps be the VHF. You want a lot of other defenses between you and harm. Not paddling under boats would be one of the outer rings of defense, as would be; fitness, clothing, judgement of conditions.
-That's viewing safety in layers, where the last ring of defense would\\
-perhaps be the VHF.  You want a lot of other defenses between you and\\
-harm.  Not paddling under boats would be one of the outer rings of\\
-defense, as would be; fitness, clothing, judgement of conditions.
-I'm asked about leashes a lot.  I suspect the listener is giving me a\\
+I'm asked about leashes a lot. I suspect the listener is giving me a subtle I.Q. test. They are really saying, "so you paddle a surfski. Do you have any working brain cells? Prove it by showing some of the higher brian functions."
-subtle I.Q. test.  They are really saying, "so you paddle a surfski.\\
-Do you have any working brain cells?  Prove it by showing some of the\\
-higher brian functions."
-I believe the sport is new enough to not have a "right answer" to the\\
+I believe the sport is new enough to not have a "right answer" to the question of leashes yet. Also, paddlers are constructed so differently that there never will be a right answer. It's gratifying to see so many versions and enginuity of attachments. Some folks seem to have the fitness & natural ability to focus under duress such that a leash might never be tested. My favorite plan today is influenced by Morris. A calf leash is good for normal paddles, (there for surprises, but out of the way). A paddle to boat leash is better where conditions are really heavy. In 30mph heavy seas, it's like the famous quote, nothing so concentrates the mind as knowing you'll be hanged in a fortnight. I've done it and I like it better with the paddle and boat affixed.
-question of leashes yet.  Also, paddlers are constructed so\\
-differently that there never will be a right answer.  It's gratifying\\
-to see so many versions and enginuity of attachments.  Some folks\\
-seem to have the fitness & natural ability to focus under duress such\\
-that a leash might never be tested.  My favorite plan today is\\
-influenced by Morris.  A calf leash is good for normal paddles,\\
-(there for surprises, but out of the way).  A paddle to boat leash is\\
-better where conditions are really heavy.  In 30mph heavy seas, it's\\
-like the famous quote, nothing so concentrates the mind as knowing\\
-you'll be hanged in a fortnight.  I've done it and I like it better\\
-with the paddle and boat affixed.
-But I'm not selling anything to anyone else.  Except get a dang\\
+But I'm not selling anything to anyone else. Except get a dang radio. And hey, didn't Erik B. light this fuse? What's your method Erik?
-radio.  And hey, didn't Erik B. light this fuse?  What's your method\\
-Erik?
 Reivers
@@ Line 465: / Line 302: @@
 **Epic Leash Vs North Water Leash\\
 Bob Putnam** \\
-/24/08  #5241
+/24/08 #5241
-At the Mayor's Cup I dumped once on the way back.  Surfing a wave I\\
+At the Mayor's Cup I dumped once on the way back. Surfing a wave I wiped out. My foot was stuck in the foot strap but I managed to get it out with no big deal. My first remount attempt failed and after getting back in on my second attempt I noticed to my horror that my leash strap had come undone!! Try wrapping the leg leash strap around your ankle with one hand in 4 foot waves. I think it was operator error which caused the strap to come undone. Maybe I didn't secure the velcro enough.
-wiped out.  My foot was stuck in the foot strap but I managed to get\\
-it out with no big deal.  My first remount attempt failed and after\\
-getting back in on my second attempt I noticed to my horror that my\\
-leash strap had come undone!!  Try wrapping the leg leash strap\\
-around your ankle with one hand in 4 foot waves.  I think it was\\
-operator error which caused the strap to come undone.  Maybe I didn't\\
-secure the velcro enough.
-At Deep Cove Outdoors we carry two models of leg leashes.  North\\
+At Deep Cove Outdoors we carry two models of leg leashes. North Water and Epic. Last year I had a dialogue with North Water Rescue gear about the short comings of their leash. They rectified the problem.
-Water and Epic.  Last year I had a dialogue with North Water Rescue\\
-gear about the short comings of their leash.  They rectified the\\
-problem.\\
-One problems was that the coil and the lead was too short.  When a 6'\\
-person was in the water beside their ski there was a fair bit of\\
-tension causing the ski to be pulled over on its side.  They solved\\
-the problem by making the lead which attaches to the ski longer(\\
-about 8 inches)  and by making the coil longer.  The added a hook\\
-that you can detach from the leg strap.  It makes it a bit easier for\\
-launching surf.  The plastic hook and plastic D-ring it attaches to\\
-are pretty strong.  Under a fair bit of tension the hook doesn't show\\
-any sign of weakness.
-Epic's leash is much the same.  They use a metal hook which I think\\
+One problems was that the coil and the lead was too short. When a 6' person was in the water beside their ski there was a fair bit of tension causing the ski to be pulled over on its side. They solved the problem by making the lead which attaches to the ski longer (about 8 inches) and by making the coil longer. The added a hook that you can detach from the leg strap. It makes it a bit easier for launching surf. The plastic hook and plastic D-ring it attaches to are pretty strong. Under a fair bit of tension the hook doesn't show any sign of weakness.
-is stainless...not sure.  Their coil is shorter, but the leg strap is\\
-bigger and can easily wrap around your upper calf.
-One problem with both hooks is that if you twist the hook and pull\\
+Epic's leash is much the same. They use a metal hook which I think is stainless…not sure. Their coil is shorter, but the leg strap is bigger and can easily wrap around your upper calf.
-pull it back on the D-Ring it will un-hook.
-The THINK Legend has a nice leash attachment point on the inside of\\
+One problem with both hooks is that if you twist the hook and pull pull it back on the D-Ring it will un-hook.
-the cockpit area.
-Last year I saw two run-away surf skis.  It happened pretty quick. In\\
+The THINK Legend has a nice leash attachment point on the inside of the cockpit area.
-on instance the ski was rolling along the water like a\\
-log.  In the other case, it was April and the paddler dumped in the\\
-middle of Deep Cove.  It was only seconds and the ski was out of\\
-reach and moving away quickly.  He was only 500m from shore.  Had\\
-nobody come to his aid it would have been a long cold swim.  500\\
-metres equals 10 minutes of swimming in a pool wearing a bathng suit.
-Paddlers should practice recovering a ski that is adrift.  The best\\
+Last year I saw two run-away surf skis. It happened pretty quick. In on instance the ski was rolling along the water like a log. In the other case, it was April and the paddler dumped in the middle of Deep Cove. It was only seconds and the ski was out of reach and moving away quickly. He was only 500m from shore. Had nobody come to his aid it would have been a long cold swim. 500 metres equals 10 minutes of swimming in a pool wearing a bathng suit.
-method is to come along side the adrift ski.  Put one foot inside the\\
-adrift ski and use your other foot to steer your surf ski.\\
+Paddlers should practice recovering a ski that is adrift. The best method is to come along side the adrift ski. Put one foot inside the adrift ski and use your other foot to steer your surf ski.\\
 Bob
@@ Line 516: / Line 324: @@
 **Re: leashes\\
 Erik Borgnes** \\
-/24/08  #5242
+/24/08 #5242
-I always paddle alone (though not by choice).  Usually, I choose  appropriate routes that, worse case scenario, blow me in towards  shore.  But, weather changes and I've been caught out a few miles  from shore in a developing offshore wind.  That doesn't have to  happen more than once to become a learning experience.
+I always paddle alone (though not by choice). Usually, I choose appropriate routes that, worse case scenario, blow me in towards shore. But, weather changes and I've been caught out a few miles from shore in a developing offshore wind. That doesn't have to happen more than once to become a learning experience.
-My last line of defense now is an Epic knee leash.  It fits above my  knee and has a quick release so that I can release it quickly if I  need to, it doesn't get caught under my feet, and it won't slide down  over my foot like a calf (under the knee) leash might when you're  swimming.  I've got a Mocke pfd that I virtually always wear, too,  because it's light and comfortable and has two big pockets that  virtually disappear when they are empty.  Still need to get a VHF,  though.
+My last line of defense now is an Epic knee leash. It fits above my knee and has a quick release so that I can release it quickly if I need to, it doesn't get caught under my feet, and it won't slide down over my foot like a calf (under the knee) leash might when you're swimming. I've got a Mocke pfd that I virtually always wear, too, because it's light and comfortable and has two big pockets that virtually disappear when they are empty. Still need to get a VHF, though.
-I've used a homemade paddle to boat leash in past years, and in most  conditions, I trust that one too.  A good system might be to use a  paddle to boat leash as standard and to carry another 3 ft length of  line that can be quickly attached from pfd to the paddle or paddle  leash.  A possible scenario might be that you're way off shore and  the wind and water start to get ugly.  Throw your feet over the  sides, take the short line from your pfd pocket and clip one end on  your pfd and the other end on the paddle or paddle leash.  I suppose  one end could be permanently fixed to the pfd but stuffed into the  pocket.
+I've used a homemade paddle to boat leash in past years, and in most conditions, I trust that one too. A good system might be to use a paddle to boat leash as standard and to carry another 3 ft length of line that can be quickly attached from pfd to the paddle or paddle leash. A possible scenario might be that you're way off shore and the wind and water start to get ugly. Throw your feet over the sides, take the short line from your pfd pocket and clip one end on your pfd and the other end on the paddle or paddle leash. I suppose one end could be permanently fixed to the pfd but stuffed into the pocket.
-I ran into one problem this summer when I practiced swimming my ski  and paddle in to shore from about 300 m out in 2-4' waves.  That's  really slow going.  The best would be to have been able to stuff the  paddle under some bungees and attach the leash to the bow so that you  could swim and tow the ski while the ski is not dragging sideways.   One possibility might be to use that bow to cockpit line on a line  method.  Another might be to glass a hole in the bow to serve as an  attachment point (maybe someone like your man Sterling could retrofit  that to production skis?).   Another might be to contact cement a NRS  raft D ring:\\
+I ran into one problem this summer when I practiced swimming my ski and paddle in to shore from about 300 m out in 2-4' waves. That's really slow going. The best would be to have been able to stuff the paddle under some bungees and attach the leash to the bow so that you could swim and tow the ski while the ski is not dragging sideways. One possibility might be to use that bow to cockpit line on a line method. Another might be to glass a hole in the bow to serve as an attachment point (maybe someone like your man Sterling could retrofit that to production skis?). Another might be to contact cement a NRS raft D ring:\\
-http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1080\\
+[[http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1080|http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1080]]\\
-to the bow and transfer the leash from amidships to the D-ring if  you're going to swim but don't want to lose the bouyancy and  visibility of the boat.    Let me know if you test one of these.
+to the bow and transfer the leash from amidships to the D-ring if you're going to swim but don't want to lose the bouyancy and visibility of the boat. Let me know if you test one of these.
 Erik
@@ Line 532: / Line 340: @@
 \\
 **Re: Epic Leash Vs North Water Leash\\
-Larry Bussinger <lbussing@...>** \\
+Larry Bussinger <lbussing@…>** \\
-/24/08  #5243
+/24/08 #5243
+After seeing how fast the plastic hook comes undone, I wouldn't use it. I think you can help the situation with the hooks by attaching it to a 3" diameter loop. this way the loop will just twist as opposed to letting a hook get enough purchase to unsnap. Another point I'd like to make in regards to swiming in cold water, is that your heart rate will sky rocket close to max when you hit the cold water, consequently you don't have any HR left to swim with. Years ago, I was lucky to make it 50' to shore.
-After seeing how fast the plastic hook comes undone, I wouldn't use\\
+Larry B
-it.  I think you can help the situation with the hooks by attaching\\
-it to a 3" diameter loop.  this way the loop will just twist as\\
-opposed to letting a hook get enough purchase to unsnap.\\
-Another point I'd like to make in regards to swiming in cold water,\\
-is that your heart rate will sky rocket close to max when you hit the\\
-cold water, consequently you don't have any HR left to swim with.\\
-Years ago, I was lucky to make it 50' to shore.  Larry B

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